LA fires

[James Curry]

Well all I can say is when the flames are rapidly approaching your house the last thing on your worry list is the under growth growing back.
Having lived in Spain and France they will use any means to get control of the fire and extinguish it.
If as reported in LA they do not like using sea water as it hinders the recovery of the undergrowth really, I thought it was the undergrowth was the problem.
I have seen fires in Spain engulfing mountains and burning right down to the port area in Javea. There is a mountain there that looks like the head and trunk of an Elephant (Montgo) totally ablaze. Fire fighting aircraft dumped tons of sea water to put the fires out. Within 12 months the undergrowth and trees were recovering, must be different salt water in the Mediterranean than Paciffic salt water.
If salt water is so bad for growth of plants why is it that sea weed is used as fertiliser and has been for as long as I can remeber. Use it myself, straight off the beach and dig into my Veg patch. I even eat seed weed, it is just knowing what type to eat.

[Ivan Cloherty]

I would think that corrosion of aircraft tanks (probably aluminium anyway) and grass regrowth are the last things on anyone's mind when fighting fires of this magnitude. I know when I was involved in fighting a fire at sea the only thing on my mind was how do I get this bloody thing under control, which thankfully we did by the knowledge gleaned at Hull and Plymouth Fire Stations. The heat of the fire would probably neutralise the salt anyway, grass and undergrowth have a habit of resprouting under the most hideous circumstances, think of volcanoes, Chernobyl, tsunamis

[Rodney Mills]

I have hiked, camped, and stayed in business friends' residents in the mountains that are above Beverly Hills were the fires are. I have also, hiked and camped in France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Switzerland, etc. etc.. These countries have a thousand year of history, and their mountain areas foothills and mountain bases are well established and topographically civilized.

Where these fires were is wilderness and many at the edge of wilderness and the winds were roaring through the canyons at 100 mph plus, driving the flames into the lower housing developments

I lived for over 20 years in L.A.. I have hiked, toured, and stayed with business friends throughout the area where the fires were. Roads through the passes are minimal. there are side roads that lead to homes. The homes are super expensive as roads had to be built and lots cleared to build. Housing estates with less super but costly homes were built at the bases and foothills, along with churches, stores etc..

Many of the inhabitants at the base are second and third generation owners. And had insurance, but because of the radical high prices these houses, building sites had become, the insurance companies stopped underwriting and renewal of existing policies.

As one survivor who had lost his home and had his insurance cancelled said he hadn't worried because his family had lived there for 40 years and never a fire, so didn't worry.... until now.

Rodney

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Ivan.
We had a fire on a tanker when pulling away from Kuwait, they where running the ropes down the lazzaret when the friction set them on fire, [probably dried out by heat] my mate and I had the fire hose on full spray down the hole, I doubt the Mate was worried about a bit of corrosion by the salt water .
Cheers Des

[happy daze john in oz]

Yes James wooden shingles on the roof and the basic house is very often weatherboard on a wooden frame.
Does not take much for them to go up.
We still have some weatherboard houses here in Oz but slowly going, though some two Storey ones now often have the top half done in Hardy Plank, similar to weatherboard but a bit tougher, so they say!!!!!!

[Ivan Cloherty]

Ivan.
We had a fire on a tanker when pulling away from Kuwait, they where running the ropes down the lazzaret when the friction set them on fire, [probably dried out by heat] my mate and I had the fire hose on full spray down the hole, I doubt the Mate was worried about a bit of corrosion by the salt water .
Cheers Des

Yes Des a lot of nonsense is talked, at sea when leaving port the whole ship was hosed down with seawater, no one ever gave a thought to the corrosion, seawater was her element, when I was unfortunate enough to sail on 12 person passenger ships we washed down every morning. Only time used Fresh water for a full wash down was in the Panama Lakes, wonder if you can still do that with all the current rules and regulations

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi Ivan
From what I have read that would be a no no at the present time as the fresh water lakes are drying up there.
Des

[happy daze john in oz]

Now they say the power company was responsible for the fires.
All to do with wind speed and at what point when it is blowing a gale the power level should be educed or removed.

Salt water I have read is doing wonders to off shore wind turbines.

[Rodney Mills]

There are 4 fires: Hurst, Eaton, Sunset and Palisades fires. There are over 1500 ground firefighters (professionals) plus aerial combatants. Massive*tanker planes and tanker*helicopters are battling 24hrs with helicopter crews limited to 5- or 6-hour shifts during the night. A central helicopter, up high, marshals and directs the fire fighters armed with retardants*and water*to a target*area.* Winds are clocked*at between 70 and 100 mph.27 people*so far have died.* The 2 largest fires, Eaton and Palisades, have consumed more than*40,000 acres.* The fires are up to*35% contained.* This is not flat lands but deep and steep canyons with minimal*roads or tracks. Wind is currently at 70 mph. The tanker planes can scoop more than a thousand*gallons of* water a minute.
We have an expression.* In grand opera the heroine is usually a fat*woman soprano of 60 plus playing the part of a 16 year virgin heroine dying in the arms of her lover and conks* out as the curtain slowly closes to the final act. So we say "It ain't over until the fat lady sings". Well she ain't sung yet and there's no dying down of the winds in sight.
More than 40.00 have been forced to move.to hotels, friends and relatives, the lucky ones had*suitcases*loaded, most just grabbed treasures like photo albums.* The roads were jammed and impossible to drive so the just literally ran for their lives losing home and car.
The fires cannot be left to die out as the wind is throwing burning branches all over the place which*must be put out or it will start fires miles away
Rodney

[James Curry]

Fires as they get bigger create there own weather, no doubt that includes wind. It has been mentioned there are a lot of canyons in and around LA. Is it possible that what you now have in effect is a fire storm, similar as to what happened in say Dresden in WW2. Narrow streets , narrow Canyons?