Death at sea

[Keith Tindell]

The women killed by a broken window, got me thinking of when i was at sea in heavy weather, we put the dead light down on the porthole, because the sea could smash the porthole . Now when you look at cruise boats and all the balconies along the side of the ship, just made for large dollops of sea water to catch the side of the ships, but i suppose blue water boats gamble to an extend on not meeting large seas.

[Johnny Kieran]

I remember the full version. "Fools, Firemen, and first trippers, sit on the wall"

[happy daze john in oz]

On most cruise ships there are so many CCTV on board watching just about everything some one should have seen what happened.
You need to climb a bit to get over the rail, did he fall or was he pushed??

[Doc Vernon]

Possibly a Hari Kari Jump John!
Strange things happen at Sea, it is said that the Sea has various affects on People, that i do believe as i have heard and seen strange happenings !!

Cheers

[Colin Wood]

Early 50's, a second mate went over the side while reading taff rail log. He was was picked up many hours later, he was accompanied by an electric eel whoswam around him and helped keep him awake. This was after shipccleared Panama canal in Pacific.

[j.sabourn]

#11 wheelhouse windows had a tendency to come in during the winter in the North Sea. However it was often to those American vessels built for the Gulf of Mexico. Their glass was not built for such weather as the. North Sea at times. And if not replaced with stronger I suspect was the root cause of. If a Bridge window gave in then all your electric control panels were immediately behind it and you were in trouble. I would put more trust in a porthole than a window anytime for strength and watertightness. Most portholes also had deadlights as you say to reinforce the integrity of the glass. JS

[john walker]

#11 wheelhouse windows had a tendency to come in during the winter in the North Sea. However it was often to those American vessels built for the Gulf of Mexico. Their glass was not built for such weather as the. North Sea at times. And if not replaced with stronger I suspect was the root cause of. If a Bridge window gave in then all your electric control panels were immediately behind it and you were in trouble. I would put more trust in a porthole than a window anytime for strength and watertightness. Most portholes also had deadlights as you say to reinforce the integrity of the glass. JS

Hi John I seem to remember many years ago when a Comet aircraft crashed, it was sent to Farnboro Aircraft scientific research centre for the boffins to try and understand why . One of the recommendations the boffins made concerned the ship having windows, They obviously were never meant to open but apparently weakened the structure of the fuselage and were more likely to fail if hit by anything. All comets thereafter were designed with port holes.

[j.sabourn]

#17 That’s how everyone learns John by others mistakes and unfortuanetley sometimes people die in the process. My closest mistake made by a person in an owners office which I had no control over as was overruled on was as mate on a 30000 ton geared bulk carrier. The vessel was less than a year old and was a 7 hold geared bulk carrier.The shipbuilders built her with the claim she could go to sea with two holds empty. The owners said right we are going to put car decks in hold 2 and 4 , no 4 was the ballasting hold or what one would call a deep tank. Anyhow that was it those two holds were empty as far as I was concerned the weight of 600 motor cars was negible when it came to other heavy weights on vessel . Later we received orders to load 2 more holds with iron ore concentrates in Australia , and proceed from there to Durban to load the remaining holds with grain. I said to the old retired master you can’t do that the ship is not loaded correctly . Back came the owners saying the ship is built to go with 2 holds empty , I sat down with the Ch.engineer with the builders plans and went through every frame and its sheering force factor on paper loading as they wanted , and it worked out she was ok in STILL WATER ONLY gave this to the master and he sent off to the owners . We sailed on an Indian Ocean passage to my mind in an incorrect method of stowage . If we had of had any bad weather there is no doubt in my mind that ship would of broken in at least 2 parts with the probable loss of 50 lives. There was no computers in those days and that was probably the biggest sum I ever had to work out . That ship cracked and groaned all the way across the Indian Ocean . I learned the hard way at sea the only one you trust when it comes to cases like that , is yourself. Needless to say when I got back to London their excuse was they never noticed the still water bit . But were very pleased with the money that charter had brought in, and I was going back as master after my leave . Guess what I said , stuff the ship and you I have resigned . JS

[john walker]

#18 John It never ceases to amaze me How owners try to overide the Senior members of a ships staff when putting profit before safety. There have been many documented cases of lives being lost and ships lost due to individual negligence. When an inquiry is held into the loss of a ship, more often than not the first person to be blamed is normaly the master or other senior officers. It is never usually the senior shore staff or owners and in certain cases such as the Derbyshire an inquiry that went on for years still tried to blame the ships staff. I guess since the beginings of modern shipping companies, it has been normal practise and will ever be so when people are desperate for work

[James Curry]

Perhaps one reason the Derbyshire inquiry went on so long was to try and protect Swan Hunter.
The last thing Swan Hunters wanted was the Derbyshire to be found.
If it had not been for the persistence of Derbyshire family members it would all have been brushed under the table.

Another thing the builder did not need was for the English Bridge/Kowloon Bridge to fetch up on the Stags Rocks West Cork.