Safety at sea now

[happy daze john in oz]

There has been much discussion on site as to the safety of ships at sea today, in particular cruise ships. Many now carry 3,000 plus passengers as well as crew so in an emergency there are a lot of people to move.
Many of the members consider the ships to be unsafe because of the numbers and the shape of the ships.

For most the depth below the water line is about 25 feet, but in this space is all the major weight of the ship, engines, fuel, water, stores, bilges etc. Consider a shuttlecock, all the weight is at the base with the centre hollow, very much the same with these ships.


As to major disasters at sea, the Titanic, Andrea Doria, Costa Concordia, though this was an act of stupidity that brought about the disaster. In peace time since WW2 the number of major disasters at sea involving passengers ships of any kind is very low. More aircraft dissasters have occured. The biggst risk of disasters at sea is the risk of fire, running aground is highly unlikely with modern equipment available. Engine failure can occur but as most of the modern ships have three generators so it would be something very difficult for all to go off line at the same time.

The order to abandon ship is something that would not would be taken lightly, many things must b etaken into consideration first. Proximity of land, other ships, availability of rescue should the ship be abandoned. With all the modern equipment on ships of today I doubt any ship would be in serious danger at any time.


There may be some members who will not agree with what I have stated, it is my opinion, but for those who have journeyed on a modern ship what I have stated may make sence.

But of course in the unlikely event that a ship had to be abandonded human servival preference will come to the fore. No mattre how skilled the crew, how well they are trained human survival instinct will over ride it. All the life boats and life rafts in the world will be of little value if mass hysteria takes over.

[Captain Kong]

I agree with that John
Feel much safer on a cruise ship than on a plane. No lifeboats at all on a plane , No parachutes, only one for the pilot so he can go for help.
I never sail with Greek or Italian Captains or Officers. Only British or Dutch.
I think it is many years since a disaster with a cruise ship.
I only have reservations with Cunard` lifeboat drill and their muster station is down below in a theatre, not on the Boat Deck under an assigned lifeboat as HAL does.
Cheers
Brian.

[Keith Tindell]

I ask the question of most of the folk that i know who go cruising, some several times a year, and every single one of them has told me that lifeboat drill, the muster is in the theatre, and instructed by the entertainment crew in most cases. This theatre muster practise is widespread it seems, and in my opinion is a dire way to operate, and i believe time will tell. The only efficient way is for all passengers to muster at a designated lifeboat, where a roll call can be carried out, and lifejackets issued to anyone who is without one. Any seaman must know that the theatre method is designed for confusion, thats before you start to evacuate. just my opinion from someone who will never sail on those block of flats. KT

[cappy]

###prob is no one seems to know were there lifeboat station is .....god help all the infirm persons when the lifts stop and the lights start to go off ......i have met folks after 3 or 4 days at sea asking me how do i get to my cabin on so and so deck.......i know that at some stage there will be a fire at sea and big loss of life on these mega chicken coops....as for just getting ashore .while waiting for the tenders to arrive they were pushing and shoving and crowding themselves into a narrow area and the temp was so high 2 women fainted ....and that was just to get ashore ......so in an emergency ie fire etc ....there would be a dog eat dog situation ...not like we would have had on cargo or tankers were we all new at least our position and job to be accomplished.......its a sure thing one of these will have a big prob and 3 or 4 thousnd people will be in very grave danger...regards cappy

[cappy]

I agree with that John
Feel much safer on a cruise ship than on a plane. No lifeboats at all on a plane , No parachutes, only one for the pilot so he can go for help.
I never sail with Greek or Italian Captains or Officers. Only British or Dutch.
I think it is many years since a disaster with a cruise ship.
I only have reservations with Cunard` lifeboat drill and their muster station is down below in a theatre, not on the Boat Deck under an assigned lifeboat as HAL does.
Cheers
Brian.

###so pleased to learn the pilot has a parachute and is going for help ......shall fly with great confidence now knowing the pilot will land rush to find a telephone ...or a drum if he lands in the jungle to tell the powers that be there is trouble on flight ###which is by now at least 2 or 4 hundred miles away...if still flying ...this makes me feel so secure i shall not take out insurance next time i fly rgards cappy

[John Arton]

Most modern cruise liners are diesel electric driven with the generators in a separate compartment from the rest of the auxiliary machinery {purifiers, sewage treatment etc}. The electricity generated is fed into another separate compartment where it is converted and distributed to the propulsion motor, hotel load and cargo equipment etc. On the diesel electric tankers I sailed on this high voltage room was a sealed room requiring special procedures to be carried out before anyone could enter. These ships had 4 generators driven by diesel engines. This method of propulsion is favoured by the passenger liners as you can generate large amounts of electricity from a relatively small engine and these ships require large amounts of electricity for the hotel load. The electricity generated by a modern cruise ship is sufficient to power all the needs of a small town.
The propulsion method is by azipods usually. These are self contained propulsion units hung below the hull and can rotate through 360 degrees giving the ship excellent manoeuvrability which they require when berthing due to the high windage area.
So yes these ships are very safe but the Costa Concordia was a modern ship yet due to human error disaster still occurred.
The worst disaster that could happen is fire. Any fire causes almost mass panic. Whilst I was school one of my school pals was taken on a cruise by his parents and the ship they were on caught fire and they had to abandon ship. This was in the 60's and I think the ship was the "Laconia". This and the Scandinavian Star disaster where fire broke out and killed over a hundred souls led to great improvements in fire safety with automatic sprinklers and zoning of same, greater use of fire retardant materials etc but any fire, small or large can lead to mass panic. There was a case last year when an idiot on board the North Sea ferry from Newcastle to Ijmuiden set fire to his cabin whilst taking drugs. The fire was quickly contained and as the ship was in the North Sea it was able to return safely to port but helicopter evacuation was required for a number of passengers suffering from smoke inhalation and medical conditions brought on by stress {suspected heart attack}. Now envisage a similar event happening on one of these huge cruise liners. Say a fire broke out in the theatre {quite possible, lots of hot lights etc.} Mass panic would most likely occur and although the fire systems on board may be capable of containing and extinguishing the fire and the ships stability and propulsion etc. remain unaffected, would the ship have the capability to deal with possible hundreds of cases of smoke inhalation and heart attacks etc. amongst the many old or overweight passengers. This could occur many miles from any shore based assistance.
This is the disaster I envisage occurring as many of us have experienced small fires and seen the panic that it can cause even with a well trained crew. Now throw in a couple of thousand passengers many of whom could be children, elderly, overweight or have some medical condition and all of these are being marshalled by entertainers or staff who have little or no experience or training in crowd control and fire fighting and safety and there is your recipe for disaster. The ship will possibly remain afloat and safe but the by product could be hundreds killed or injured in the ensuing panic.
It will not stop the growth of the cruise industry because after all passenger numbers on airlines have not fallen after the recent airline disasters, so the cruise industry needs to start taking measures now to up their standards of training and improve their emergency procedures for all staff on board and that includes entertainers etc. so that they can handle any such disaster.
rgds
JA

[Keith Moody]

I gon`t think you can compare disasters on cruise ships with aeroplanes, for at any one time there are thousands of planes flying the sky than cruise ships at sea, more people are killed on the road than through plane disasters.
should you ever experiance a ditching at sea on an aircraft then the seat cusions will float and the escape shutes become your lifeboat.
keith moody
R635978

[John Pruden]

always sit on the black box {they always get that back working}. jp

[Captain Kong]

I gon`t think you can compare disasters on cruise ships with aeroplanes, for at any one time there are thousands of planes flying the sky than cruise ships at sea, more people are killed on the road than through plane disasters.
should you ever experiance a ditching at sea on an aircraft then the seat cusions will float and the escape shutes become your lifeboat.
keith moody
R635978
.
,
They didnt on flight M370.
still no idea where it is after eight months..
Cheers

[John Gill]

A friend who works for BA tells me that if a plane falls out of the sky from 33,000 ft, whatever safety measures are in place, the impact would kill all on board. To crash on take off or landing would not be as catastrophic.
Gilly