To tip or not to tip that is the question

[happy daze john in oz]

On all the cruises we have been on it has always been mypleasure to speak with as many of the crew as possible. I find it bothinteresting and stimulating to interact with them by listening to theiraccounts of life today whilst being able to tell them of my time at sea.

This cruise was a little different as I got to spend sometime speaking with the skipper, a 53 year old American with a warped sense ofhumour but very approachable. He came from a maritime family backgroundbeginning his sea life as a JOS before going to maritime college and workinghis way up the ladder.
His noon- day reports from the bridge were something else,filled with information to the extreme but with humour added.

I had the pleasure of first meeting him at the Crown andAnchor returning guests evening. As I explained to him the last time I was thisclose to the skipper he was logging me, but as he told me they no longer dothat. It was at breakfast a couple of days later that he joined us atbreakfast. We were in the self- service dinning saloon when he asked if hecould sit with us for breakfast. He made it a practice to eat, each day when atsea, in the self- service for breakfast and lunch so he could meet withpassengers. I told him I was not impressed having paid all that money for thecruise then having to eat with the crew. He laughed and said he would add thatto ‘joke list’.
The position of ‘Tiger’ considered now to be elite was abandoned a decade ago, so nowthe Captain and nine other senior officers are attended to by an officerssteward. He also insists on noon day positioning by Sextant as well as GPS saying that all officers need to know how to use them in an emergency.
He explained,

There are two major cruise consortiums, one with RoyalCaribbean, this company, and Celebrity cruises. This consortium is owned by anAmerican Jew, with limited private share holders.

The second is Carnival, comprising of, Carnival, Princess,P&O, Cunard, Holland America, and Costa. This company is owned by aEuropean Jewish company with private and public shareholders.

The consortiums came about to ensure economy of scale forpurchasing purposes. With fuel oil currently at $750 per tonne and this shipusing 100 tonnes during a ten day cruise such economies are crucial.

He asked about my time at sea and how it compared with lifetoday. I explained about conditions then and now and how they have improved,also about working hours, it was then he explained something that I found veryinteresting.
Each company within the consortium runs as a separate oneand each ship within the companies must makes its own profit. Wages are ofcourse a big part in that make up.
Costa apparently are renowned for being the worst companywhen it come to working conditions with crew often having to work up to 15hours per day.
Royal Caribbean, Princess and Holland America have agreed tothe conditions of the ILO (International labour organisation) where crew arenot allowed to work more than ten hours in any one day. Of course as with anysituation there will always be the occasion when this rule may be broken. If inan emergency situation a crew member is required to work additional hours itmust not be for more than two in any one day and must be done at the start of ashift not the end.

Once having worked 303 hours in any one month all otherhours must be paid at overtime rates. All this information he offered quiteopenly and was quite proud of the fact the company had entered it such anagreement, as he did not in his words believe in ‘slave labour’ as it oftenturned crew against management.

Speaking with general crew members, one who had been withthe company 22 years, they were all more than happy with conditions and allsaid this skipper was the best they had ever sailed with. The general feelingwas one of a very happy ship with crew having completed their six -monthcontract were always more than willing to return to the ship.

From a passengers perspective though there is one problemwith the company being an American one. All charges are in US$ to be convertedto your own currency at the end of the voyage, so bar prices etc may appearattractive until the conversion. Though to be fair the size of spirits issomething else. A normal bottle will provide 31 normal or about 16 doubleserves, on these ships it is 12 to the bottle.
However there is the question of ‘gratuities’! All theadvertising for Royal Caribbean tells of the fate of ‘gratuities’ payable.Recommended is about $ 12 US per person per day. This can of course be added toyour account so you do not have to concern yourself with having to find moniesat the end of the voyage. Of course if you wish to make additional paymentsthat is perfectly in order.
You may also agree not to have such monies added to youraccount if you wish to pay privately.

Being a US ship and for most of the year sailing withAmerican passengers the system works quite well in a country where to tip isnormal.

But here in Oz things are a little different, being ofconvict stock it is not in the DNA of the average Aussie to tip, unless ofcourse Bluey has just come up on the 3.30 and is shouting the bar. Tips areonly given for outstanding reasons, and they may well be few and far between.

I had when booking on line ticked the box stating I did notwish for gratuities to be added to my account, as I would make privatearrangements. Final morning and there is my account including $240 US ingratuities. I made it to the customer service desk in record time asking whywas this so?
Normal practice to add gratuities to accounts I wasinformed!

I explained in detail the situation informing the young ladythat it is not normal practice as far as I am concerned. After a few minutesconversation with her boss she informed me a new account would be attended,would I care to call by in 15 minutes or so?
No I would not as we are about to disembark and I am notleaving this ship until my account is correct. Within five minutes a newaccount and an apology for the misunderstanding was offered.

The crew do get the compulsory gratuities they tell me, paidevery quarter as a bonus!

Apart from that the cruise, the crew, food and entertainmentwere all first class.

[j.sabourn]

John, Ref. to all his officers taking a noon day position. I assume they were all on the bridge with their sextants about 0900 every morning to start the procedure off, of working out position lines etc. Without wanting to put a damper on anyones romantic thoughts of shooting the sun at noon, anyone on this site could do after 10 minutes of instruction. That is of course without the theory and knowing what they are doing. it can consist of 3 sums. You take your Sextant Altitude when the sun has reached its highest altitude, this you would see for yourself if were using the sextant. Apply a total correction to this altitude taken from a book, take what you have now as an angle from 90 degrees. Take your Declination from the Almanac and apply plus or minus as necessary to this figure and thats your latitude. Dont be taken in by all this bull about being a complicated job. Thats to confuse the civilians so to speak. Any ten year old could do, they might not know what they are doing, but hey does anyone these days know. Cheers glad to hear you enjoyed the trip. John S

---------- Post added at 09:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 AM ----------

Ref. Above you were obviously on one of the cruise ships that had open wings on Bridge. Most are now covered in so almost impossible in some cases to take sights I would imagine.. Cheers John S

[happy daze john in oz]

John, thanks for that. Not sure exactly of what occured all he told me was that they had to do it each day to ensure that in the event of an emergency they knew the drill.

[j.sabourn]

Was probably referring to a noon Latitude with 3 lines of working. Some officers, if had to keep their hand in with that, as said was probably for the benefit of the passengers, most things I would imagine are for them. Of course also praising the well off stewards with their 10 hour day. As said in previous post is now a 12 hour day. In our day was 8, then they brought in 10 hours this was supposedly to cover housekeeping and drills etc. this was then increased to 12 for the same reasons, now it is accepted as 10 plus 2 which is 12 hours, and there is no paid overtime on British ships as far as I am aware. Philipino crew are probably under a different agreement however. Seamen are the same as they have always been underpaid hour for hour. Crews on ships, the shipowner has always looked for the cheapest and still do, the only thing stopping that in Australia is the unions. You more or less dont have any power there anymore in UK especially in the Deck and Engine room depts. beleive they are now a crewing agency more or less(Numast). When these things disappear altogether it leaves the door wide open for the unscrupulous. Now I have noticed on this site people talk about the International Union which again is only on those ships which want to be on it, it means nothing to most foreign owners, regardless of what people think, it has no means of enforcement of pay and agreements. Is in name only. Seamen the same as everyone go wherever they can find work, and the same as ashore there is a distinct shortage of. Cheers John S

[happy daze john in oz]

Interesting John, no mention of unions by any crew member. But on other ships I have had similar conversations and most crew are very satisfied with wages and conditions. Most crew on cruise ships are either Philipino or from India and Goa, few Chinese and mid Europeans. Only British appear to be in the entertainment areas and some officers. Have no understamding of cruise ships sailing from UK ports but would imagine they are crewed in the same manner.
Speaking with crew members they also informed me of the maximum 10 hour day ans all appeared very happy with it. There is some differences with a couple of the lines but often they are the ones that get the bad rap in the end.

[j.sabourn]

They are very happy to have a job and to be able to keep it, so will always be good company servants as long as they are employed and the best of luck to them. The happiest seamen I met as regards foreigners were the Russians and their wages were if anything below or on a par with Philipino. They had one thing going for them however and that was pride in their Flag and country. They also knew there was always work for them due to the large Russian Merchant Fleet. Everyone to their own, in their cases I would of been singing "If your Happy clap your Hands", I would also be clapping. Cheers JS

[Lou Barron]

Just read your post on cruise ships Happy DazeJohni did plan to have a holiday soon and I had planned to go to Sydney but that fell through I have often talked to my past wife about taking a cruise but she did not like the idea she was more inclined to go to the UK for the shopping just like a women (god bless them).Now i have toyed with the idea of taking a cruise maybe you could give me some advice on the ways and donts

[Les Woodard]

Can not see me going on a cruise and if I did even have a rush of blood to the head the thought of paying $12us per day each would pull me back to reality real quick. Just with a 1000 passengers that equates to $12,000 per day. Bet there is some ripping of going on when dispersing the tips. Fancy paying out all that good money then having to hire your own staff to look after you. Think I have been in Oz to long. Multiply that figure to some of those ships that carry about 4000 passengers and you are looking at big bickies there of $48,000 per day. No bloody wonder the skipper had a grin that Mr Sheen could not wipe of.

[j.sabourn]

Les a lot of peope think American Seamen are well paid. According to the ones I met and sailed with they werent. I was whilst in the North Sea knew 2 US skippers who flew in from the States and Hawaii every couple of months and worked on one of the better Stand By companys I was fortuanate to work for, they were on the same lower than normal wages and were quite happy to get. In general what I have seen of shore workers in the states a lot of them have 2 jobs and in some cases even 3. The system of compulsory tipping which I dont agree with, is prevalent in the States, one reason why I dont like going there now with family. Cheers John S

---------- Post added at 08:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 AM ----------

Ref. To above last time there a couple of years ago whilst in L.A. the wife and self went on a daily bus tour of the area, cost about 120 dollars a head. At the end of the day big sign at entrance, the driver expects 30 percent of fare as remuneration. Which meant another 72 dollars in tips. This is common and how they make their wages, as their employer only pays a nominal sum. Wouldnt happen here. Cheers John S

[Keith Tindell]

I had a stay in Cairns 5 years ago, and had a taxi back to the airport, he was the only taxi driver i have EVER met who refused a tip, he stated he was well paid for his job and did not need tips, i was completely taken by surprise,but tipping round the world generally is a curse. Definitely no cruises for me, Les`s figures should make you think KT