Costa Concordia Trial

[robpage]

John , I actually found the "Professional " third engineers some of the most well equipped engineers that I sailed with , certainly in terms of experience as well as ability , and when it all went wrong they would quietly plod their way through a crisis like any other day ,

[j.sabourn]

Rob one of many similar experiences was one which believe have put up before. On a converted trawler above 60 north in the North Sea. Engines collapsed. Loss of all power. All hands down E.R. This was during gale conditions which were forecast to go later to storm force. The 2 Engineers did a marvellous job to get her ticking over to enable us to make Aberdeen. This was one of the closest times I have had for putting out a mayday on my own behalf. Needless to say the 2 engineers were ex professional 3rds from deep sea. The ships name was Famita which was sold re-engine and may still be doing the same work today as far as I know. Cheers John Sabourn

[happy daze john in oz]

Which ever way this trial goes there will be certain amount of preudice. Italian law being what it is I doubt if the trial will evre be seen to be fair, the fact thta those who have pleaded guilty will not be required to appear will only assist in obscuring the truth. For a fair and open trial I believe it should have been held in a nuetral country with an international jury.
The events leading up to this disaster must never be allowed to happen agin and an open and free trial allowing ALL informatuion to be shown is the only way.

[Roger Dyer]

In case some members may think the trial of Captain Schettino is being heard before a judge and jury, I post the following information (much of which I gleaned from a Google search earlier today).

The procedure in Italian criminal courts varies quite markedly to that with which we in Britain, Oz, N.Z, Canada and the U.S. are familiar and even though the legal system in these countries might also differ, somewhat, the structure of each is rooted in English Law. Most significantly, perhaps, and contrary to what many of us may think, the Italian legal system makes no provision for a jury whereas in English Law, as we all know, the jury plays a most important role. The reason for any misunderstanding probably stems from the procedure in an Italian Corte d'Assise (Assizes ?) whereby a trial is heard by a panel of eight (8) judges, two of whom are professional and the other six being lay-judges or 'popular' judges, a term by which they are known in Italy. In essence, the lay-judges are ordinary, everyday citizens, much like those who comprise a jury in an English court...... but there the likeness ends. The eight 'judges sit in a line along a raised podium or bench from whence they can observe the 'indagata' (defendant) who, no doubt, stands quivering before them, hoping that when the verdict is given, the incontinence pad he/she put on that morning will prove an unnecessary precaution.......poor bu--ers! the Spanish Inquisition comes to mind. Dependent upon the seriousness of the charges against them and the type of Court in which the case is heard, the fate of an Italian defendant will be decided by one, two, three, four (two judges and two experts) or eight judges (as previously mentioned). In the case of ex-Captain Schettino, his fate will be decided by three judges only, unless, of course, in the event of conviction he decides to lodge an appeal against severity of sentence, in which case he, too, could end up facing Happy, Grumpy, Sleepy, Dopey, Sneezy, Doc, Bashful and Snow White.. ...and wearing an incontinence pad !!!!!


............Roger

[Captain Kong]

Regarding the Courts of Inquiry, The one I was involved with was the loss of the POOL FISHER with 13 lives.
There was no Jury, only a Jury at the Inquest which was held at the Coroners Court in Gosport eight months earlier.

.Quote........................
The Formal Investigation was held at Norbreck Castle Hotel in Blackpool for five days. I was summoned to appear at the Court by the Treasurers Solictor who knocked on my door and gave me the notice that forced me to attend.
Then the Court was moved to . 47, Parliament Street, Westminster, SW1. for another two days to sum up.
The Judge was Mr, GRA Darling, RD,QC, assisted by Captain CW Leadbetter, RD,RNR [Retd.]
Captain PJ Pembridge and Sq.Ldr.CF Trigg, MSc. BSc, [Eng] MICE, FI MechE.
.
The Court having carefully inquired into the circumstances attending the above mentioned shipping casualty, finds for the reasons stated in the Annex hereto, that the said casualty was probably caused by the entry of water into the fore part of POOL FISHER`s hold following a failure of the aftermost section of the hatch boards on her No. 1 hatch, which failure was caused or contributed to by the wrongful act or default of her Master, John Maclaren Stewart and her Mate, Francis William Cooper.
Dated this twelth day of December 1980.
.Unquote.
.
A lot of people were not too happy at this decision to blame the Master and Mate, both had died, dead men tell no tales.
From what I heard from the two survivors the cleats around the hatch were damaged, and on two or three occasions sailing across the North Sea in heavy weather the Tarps came adrift and had to have the wedges hammered in again. She was supposed to have them fixed on return to UK. There was also insufficient locking bars on board and maybe these were on order.
A phone call was made to the Office of the owners in Barrow in Furness, when the vessel was still in the North Sea. The Company said they always made a recording of every telephone call they recieved from their ships. BUT in this case they could not find the recording. Odd.
.
.
So regarding the Court of Inquiry into the loss of the Concordia , there maybe no Jury, just a group of Assesors.
Again if the Court agrees an illegal act was performed then Criminal proceedings may start in another Court which may or may not have a Jury.
.
..
When I was in ESSO, after the sinking of the Penlee Lifeboat disaster involving the Irish cargo ship, We had to make all our courses to sail no closer than four miles from the nearest Grounding Line.
.
As a common language used on a ship. I noticed on Holland America ships the official language is English for everyone. The Master was Dutch and about half and half of the navigators and engineers were Dutch and English.
The crew were Indonesian and all spoke good English. Language No Problem. All announcements were always in English.
Cheers
Brian.

[j.sabourn]

Brian funnily enough the only deep sea ship with any language difficulties was with Chinese Crews. The Eng. Room staff were from Foochow and the Deck from I think Shanghai, and both spoke different dialects. Many spoke no English. The bosun came under this category, fortuanetly his brother was 3rd. mate who did speak some English so did everything through him. We had no 2nd Mate as he was or had been Egyptian and decided he was not coming with us and jumped over the side in the Kiel Canal coming from Poland outward bound for Karachi. The 3rd. Mate was no navigator so I did all the sights and he used to give me early reliefs and was always 6 bottles of beer when I came off watch. This crew was changed 8 months later in Hong Kong for philipinos. However on reaching Japan after 11 months all I could see was a disaster happening and walked off and flew home. I had always thought that the ship had been lost in a typhoon shortly after, and it was only someone on this site telling me this was incorrect, which relieved my conscience quite a bit. Cheers John Sabourn

[Tony Wilding]

There are so many different stories, Indonesian Helmsman did not understand good English, he had been employed a good few years in a satisfactory manner , trauma made him ill , must be at his wits end, the lowest rating with all the blame on him ? . possibly too scared to tell the truth, Schettino supposed to be down below dining, not on the Bridge ?, he seems well informed on where to lay the blame for someone not on the bridge, what were the other Bridge Officers doing as all this was unfolding ? , did they not have voices, ? personally i think Schettino was a bit of a tyrant towards lower ranks and they were afraid to question his actions, am of the opinion that the position of Captain on such a ship and the glory it gave him went to his head, thought he could do no wrong, the man was a joke, should never have been in command, later events proved that. am afraid it happened in the wrong country for the real truth to emerge.

[John Arton]

LinkedIn has some good transcripts of the proceedings.
Captain Fantastic is now demanding a full examination of all the systems on board as he claims the ship had many faults that had a bearing on the resultant disaster. Apparently he has accepted his fault for the disaster but claims in his defence that system faults on board were as much to blame as he is. Believe he is claiming problems with water tight doors not closing in time etc. etc.
rgds
JA

[robpage]

Oh not ! the old watertight doors did not close , so I went too close to the rock defence ,

After the steamship I was on rearranged the car ramp on an Island , we had had an 1/2 astern , to reverse on to the ramp , which was followed by a Treble full astern , so we reversed a little bit faster , apparently the telegraphs were the wrong way and the engineers knew that the ship should have gone ahead , so it was our fault . You gets the salary , you take the blame .

If his ship was so full of faults , all known , does that mean he proceeded to sea with his vessel in an unseaworthy condition ?>

[Louis the Amigo]

Hi Shipmates, It seems the Captain had other things on his mind with his lover, a dancer!!! He was not doing the proper job? cant blame the helmsman !!!