undercover cruise

[Captain Kong]

Hi Ray, which ever way you look at it, it will never change, their wages will never increase but they will still have employment, which is a little more than our own seafarers.
When we were at sea in the 50s and 60s and so on the Lascars on the Clan boats and Kroo boys on EDs and many other British Shipping Companies were always on starvation wages compared with ours, and we were on peanuts. but it suited them because they were better off than their own country men at home. But no British Merchant Seamen complained of the low wages of the Lascars then. The writing was on the wall in those days regarding cheap overseas labour.
The ones I have sailed with were happy with what they were getting as they were better off than the ones at home and they had a good standard of living. I always ask them everytime I sail what their conditions are.
.
As I have said previously, all this employing of third world labour was sorted out by the UN with the Lima Agreement in 1975 regarding employment and all kinds of Industries including the Shipping Industry being given to the poorer countries. and every member Nation including ours, of the UN, signed up to the agreement.
.
Nothing we can do about it. It will never change, So I still enjoy doing the Cruises when I can and I always help the people there with a Big tip and they are always happy.
Do not knock it if you havent tried it, If no one went on a cruise all these people from the Philpines would be Unemployed and there is no work in the Philipines and that really would Increase their Misery.
They are the ones who will suffer, So when I go I am keeping them employed and a good standard of life for their families.
Now What is wrong with that???
It is rather like a Union getting everyone out on strike for more money, so they all get sacked, the job goes overseas and everyone is out of a job and No money at all. They all lose.
Cheers
Brian.

[robpage]

Noting the above comments , I have no problem with third world crewing , I am ex Clan Line , and UCL used Zulu on some cargo ships , so it would be hypocritical for me to dislike it now , What my point is m the shipowner is paying these guys $50 a month that is FIFTY US DOLLARS a MONTH for a 80 hour week That is $1.66 a Day for up to 16 hours i.e,.$0.10 c an Hour , the wages are then made up by the passenger's tips . The tips are a levy , so you pay £799.00 for your 10 day cruise and an additional £200.00 for tips which to all intent is compulsory , so your £799.00 cruise is really £ 999.00 paid by you , the crewman's wages are really $50.00 plus the tips that you are charged . This leaves me with a couple of Questions

a) if all the passengers refused to pay the tip surcharge would the company cover the $700,000.00 shortfall in the wages bill every month that is $8,400,000.00 a year per ship on a ship with 1000 crew
b) the 3000 passengers paying $ 450.00 a month equals $ 1,350,000 or $16,200,000.00 a year that leaves a surplus of the tip surcharge of $7,800,000.00 a year , Who has that ? wonder if the company pockets it ?
c) the uniform charge that the guys pay , is it cost price or is it inflated , I wonder ?
d) if the company charged the proper price and tipping was on merit how many passengers would not book , and do they know about the tipping surcharge before the passenger comes aboard

I Never liked the Never Useful to Seafarers or the Must Never Allow Officers Anything , too many old cronies and too much time in the pub with the officials , and thought Ruin My Transport a poorer substitute , but I come from a background of the Derbyshire Coal fields where the Coal mIne owners tried to starve the men back to work in the 1880s , but strength won through , when unions were democratic and essential , before the looney left took a hand in their control , I see the bottom line as $50 a month paid by the ship owner the rest volunteered by the passenger , I do not believe wherever they live that is a fair wage . They also because the workload was too much had to pay others to help them or the job did not get done , Now back in the Dark ages of UCL there was a barter system in Whiskey , for the extras of life , but I never heard of a Bedroom Steward paying his mate to help him because the job was too much , I may be proven wrong ,

[Ray McCerery]

We will never get the British seafarer back, that's now history except for a few. But I would like to see seafarers of today paid a decent salary and not dependent on tips. The ITF have a set standard why not use that?.Also if it was not compulsory to pay for gratuities, the cruise would be less expensive. Give tips to the ones who deserve it.


Ray

[Captain Kong]

Hi Rob,
In the days of the real Cunard in the 50s no cheap overseas labour there, many if not all jobs then were `sub let` or the Bed Room Stewards paid someone to help, In the Bars the Bar Tenders paid some one to wash glasses etc,
I was a Quarter Master on the old Franconia and in my watch below I washed up and polished glasses for the Cocktail Bar Steward. I made a lot of money doing that and also a few free bevies. and more than if I worked on deck on overtime. That woman on the Prog made a big deal of it. It has always gone on with All British Crews on the Passenger ships , out of Liverpool at least. May be Jim Brady or other members who sailed in the Catering department out of Liverpool on the Cunard experienced that. There was a lot of big money floating around in those days.
I really do think that 50$ a month they quoted is an exageration. As I have said before the Philipinos I sailed with were happy with what they got. Al you have to do is ask them.
Regarding tipping I always gave them good tips because they were good. bad ones didnt get a tip, same as anywhere else. Some shipping Companies dont charge tips, it is `All Inclusive` so it is in with the price.
It was good the way these TV people do documentaries, Bad news is Better News than good news or their would be no programme.
I am not defending the ship owners, they are all bastards and only in the game to make a profit. But the alternative for the Philipinos is No Work and living in Poverty in the Philipines, so they are on a good deal as it is, So you cannot fault that. There is no way any Union is going to get involved. They would not be interested and as all Unions would be paid off to keep them quiet.
Cheers
Brian.

[David Williams]

Hi Keith.
Its hard to belive that what I saw and heard
goes on in 2012.I hope that someone in the
right position will take note and do something
about it,although I cant see much being done
as its all down to profit.
Dave Williams

[Jim Brady]

Captain Kong 24# Brian yes there was money going around for helping others out.When I was on the France me and another bellboy used to get the smokeroom ready for afternoon tea so the smokeroom stewards could have an extra half hour or so kip,it was good dosh 10 bob or a US or Can Dollar every day.When I was on the Britain a couple of us bellboys gave the stewards crew messman a hand clearing all the tables of crockery etc each night without us it would've been quite late when he got finished,we got a few bob for that aswell. My mate was QM or Bosuns Mate on the Britain he used todo the brass portholes for the 1st class BR's when the ship was in Montreal.I suppose there was quite a bit of backhanders for many other things.When working in the Saloon/Restaurant as bell boy I got two collections a trip Montreal and Liverpool this was for helping the waiters out during the meal,one little thing was I went up early and put all the bread rolls on the side platesright around the Saloon also make the Cona Coffee for them at the end of the meal and generally putting yourself around and giving a hand where required.The cruit man listed all the waiters names on a menu and did the collection once again it was supposed to be 10 bob or a Dollar a man for the bell boy.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Oh by the way my bellboys uniform cost me £13.00 which I had to buy myself and I was on £12.2.6d per month.

[Ron Kendall]

For anyone who missed this tv programme, it has been put on you tube

[Captain Kong]

Thanks for that Jim.
So it has been going on for a long time now and not just the Filipinos. There a lot of jobs on the side, to make more money.
There were also some very Big tips if you had the top jobs. I remember on the France one time I think it was John Jacb Astor, Ist Class. it was well known through out the ship, he gave his bedroom steward 150 dollars and his table steward 100 dollars, that was in the late 50s, not bad wages for six days to Montreal. So these guys could afford to sub let jobs,
I remember on the old Franconia in 1956 when a poker school started, it went on for days. BIG Time money, men were paid to bring coffee and sanwiches, also other men were paid to do the jobs of the men who were playing and could not leave the table. The game lasted all the way to New York, Thousands of Dollars were involved.
That was one big gambling ship. Many high rollers came down from the passengers. as Gambling was illegal in the USA at that time.
A lot of the catering staff had their own tables, Cock and Hen Boards, Roulette tables, Crown and Anchor, Crappy Dice, and so on, it all went on around the clock, so these fellas paid other men to do their jobs.
They were the good old days, I enjoyed being there. Cunard was good in those days.
Cheers
Brian.

[robpage]

On the UCL Ships there was always a catering guy who ran a book , on UK horse races , he got the race cards and results of a sparky the printer printed them so I assume a back hander was involved . One well known Captain LLoyd , decided to stop the gambling , so he logged the bookie a day and a days pay , I think that was the terminology in that time , The bookie offered him double or Quits , Captain Lloyd produced a deck of cards , the bookie cut , and lost , and the fine was duly doubled . The book went deeper underground but never stopped

[Jim Brady]

I remember when I was Pursers Bureau bellboy on the France and a telegram came for a first class passenger one of the pursers said to me this passenger is a millionaire (there was'nt many of them around in those days).The dinner was on at the time so down to the 1st class saloon I went,I asked a waiter where this guy was,he replied "dont get exited bells he does not tip anyone".He was a regular passenger with CPR and he just did not believe in giving tips.
Regards.
Jim.B.