crew salaries on cruise ships

[j.sabourn]

Biill, you can probably remember what you were earning in 1986. Ref a past post which Gulliver found the name of the ship for me, which was lost on Xmas day. This was a Gibralter registered ship carrying fish oil Iceland to Liverpool, was offered the masters job at 750 pounds per month, dont think there was any leave as such. A bonus of 50 pounds for every cargo, was told could get 2 in a month. Its not only foreign crews which were and still are being underpaid but some of our own seafarers if there are any left. Its OK saying you dont have to do, but when you have family and bills to pay it is a different story. In this case I turned down and went mate on a yugoslav owned vessel as paid more money than master on the small tanker. The money was not high but was better than 750 p.m. This tanker was more than likely British owned. No such things as Unions. Cheers John Sabourn

[Gulliver]

Just to remind members of the vessel mentioned in your previous post, # 61 ,John.......

The 17 year-old (built 69,Deepened 71,then lengthened in 77) vegetable oil tanker SYNETA registered in Gibraltar was purchased by Syndicate Tankships Ltd. of Gibraltar in October, 1985, and “was managed by Haggerstone Marine Ltd. of Hornchurch,Essex ,” said managing agent Gordon Haggerstone.
Registered owner reported to be a J.P.Taylor.

Six British and 6 Cabo Verde crew perished .

[Capt Bill Davies]

Biill, you can probably remember what you were earning in 1986. Ref a past post which Gulliver found the name of the ship for me, which was lost on Xmas day......................

Remember my salary in 1986 and the incident. Sad loss.

Brgds

Bill

[Captain Kong]

This is the Salary scale from January 1957 for Navigating Officers.................
There is more for engineers ABs and so on , just off at the moment back soon.
.
Go on ZOOM to read
.

[j.sabourn]

Thanks for that Brian. However having trouble to make out the figures. Do know in 1957 I was 3rd. Mate with a 2nd.Mates cert. on Company Contract (No overtime) and the wages were 37 pounds 7 and 6 pence a month. Stiil have old pay slips around if I havent already thrown out. Cheers John Sabourn. P.S. Can finally make out and shows 44 per month. Even then the shipowner was being deceitful. Will try and find old wage slips and if right will try and reclaim . Some hopes there. Then people decry unions, in some cases they were a necessity for seafarers. Perhaps the disparity between the figures is that there was more leave involved and 3 months ticket leave, which one had to fight to get at times, as they always had the excuse shortage of manpower. Cheers John Sabourn.

[Capt Bill Davies]

............. Then people decry unions, in some cases they were a necessity for seafarers..

I commenced my seagoing career in the china boats and the Unions were not too well received. We paid our dues and that was it. Never had a need for them. Subsequently, on leaving the china early 61 and moving into the world of knives, forks and teacups again they were not required and I worked for a real assortment of British trampship owners. My argument with Unions dates back to 69 when I obtained my first command in NBC (SS. Phoenix) and thereafter the was fairly regular visits from the ITF. The enthusiasm and methods used for stirring up unrest was something to behold. These men had power. They were in essence people from the lowest rung of any social ladder and I had difficulty understanding that they were ever at sea. And if so, what capacity. Their agenda was of course wages paid and looking after their 'brother' seafarers welfare. What a load of rubbish. They wanted the foreign crew out irrespective of wages and replaced by their own nationality. Yes, it could be argued they were racist. On leaving NBC and working for smaller US owners I was Master of ships which were boycotted for so called 'backpay' which cost me three jobs ( a lot of money) in my time and the crew did not receive a penny when this backpay was paid. I can assure you I would not have accepted a single penny as it was nothing less than theft on the ITFs part. One day their dealings will come out in the open. So thats it John. Would not sit on the same bench as a Union man.
Too early for russian tit.

Brgds

Bill

[j.sabourn]

Dont know anything about the ITF Bill. Though I worked for Malaysian owners for 3 months once. The scale of wages I have seen quoted somewhere on here bore no resemblance to what I saw as actual earnings in the Far East, so were obviously not doing their job. Personally myself in later years always tried to come to an agreement with the employer, why the unions especially out in this part of the world should be against this I dont know. One ship I walked away from in Japan, the sister ship was arrested in Montreal (she had a Yugoslav crew) and was sold to pay the crews wages, as per law at the time the Master wasnt allowed his bit out of this. They must have had some sort of union backing for this, as would have to go through the courts, maybe this was the ITF these ships were UK citizen owned run from Hong Kong via Southern Ireland management. The exert that Brian showed from the Federation Year Book, was a Mates Bible in my time as mate on British ships, and used to know all the important bits by heart, there was always someone on board who thought they could interpret it differently. What I have said of unions, I think they were necessary to keep certain people in line, but certainly wouldnt put them in a position with too much authority, like the present Australian government. Regards John Sabourn.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Would not sit on the same bench as a Union man.
Too early for russian tit.

Brgds

Bill

Unions have a lot to answer for on occasions. This incident is true I kid you not. I was supt for a Swiss company (1970's) operating a Singapore flag ship with Yugoslav Officers and Bengali ratings, it was a well run ship ALL crew on decent salaries ex NCHP ship with nice accommodation for all crew. ITF/WWWF came aboard in Sydney looked in the crews messroom and immediately called a walk off of all dockers etc..............reason because they had seen the crew eating with their hands and told the dockers that the shipowners were tight and would not supply the crew with knives and forks. Had to get the Indian High Commission involved (no Bengali rep available then) to explain the traditions of eating in Bangladesh. This all took about three days and the ITF/WWF had to back down, but they made our lives a misery for the next four weeks finding fault with everything they could, all to get their ego's back. Cost us a fortune in additional costs for unnecessary work, example dropping a derrick during cargo work to inspect a shackle on a guy rope, even though we had shown them a certificate, this happened on so many occasions, there were of course other nonsensical occasions too numerous to mention. Upset a Union man in Australian waters and your ship is in for a rough time. I had been in Australia before and had my ship well prepared for all eventualities, but once you have won a particular battle with them, they have it in for you and this attitude followed us around the coast port to port.

So called FOC was like a red rag to a bull, and whilst some FOC ships leave a lot to be desired(as did some UK ships) the majority were well found. Sailed on a UK ship on her maiden voyage(1960's) to Oz and the WWF made us strip all the cargo gear from all the derricks to check every shackle against its certificate even though we were not using the derricks in any Oz port

Don't you just love em and their attitude "We have the power and we are going to use it"

[Keith Tindell]

Fancy slagging of the seamans union!!, especially when it produced such great men as Lord Prescott!!!!!, i am obviously taking the pi** KT

[Capt Bill Davies]

.......but once you have won a particular battle with them, they have it in for you and this attitude followed us around the coast port to port................

Good post Ivan and covers all,

I have taken the liberty of emboldening a small part above as I was very aware of this as were many former Ludwig Masters. The ITF got very personal after the 'Sentinel' incident where they were very much exposed.

Brgds

Bill