That flag

[Capt Bill Davies]

Well Keith, this goes to the very heart of the problem. The British government would feel 'AN OBLIGATION' to assist given the name, historical chronology of Cunard and of course peoples perception. The general public see a name on the bow and recognise the funnel.And of course the owners know this and its this that rattles me. Nostalgia........it's a great business.

Brgds

Bill

[j.sabourn]

Bill Ref. Your Owners. The following is a footnote I attached to a statement released to the media re. an earlier episode in my life " Being now retired and not dependant on a shipowner, I can say harsher words, I spent 49 years at sea, good shios and bad, the British Shipowner was not in the upper echelons as regards conditions etc. Being mostly in the Trampship trade I may have been seeing the worse side of shipping but dont think so. The British seamans certification standards were always reconized as as the worlds best, and most foreign owners looked for that. It is a crying shame that this was not matched by the competency of the ship management side of the businerss. I think most fault can be found in middle management and not particularly the actual Owners, as there is always this attitude of trying to go one better, probably pure ego by certain types." End of footnote. Re John in Oz remarks about the Purser, he sounds a good and faithful company servant, but he must also be wondering about his future. I certainly would. Regards John Sabourn

[happy daze john in oz]

Hi maybe they will get around to divorces also. What about Gay marriages what sort of legality will these hold. I still cant see that the excuse for changing the flag is based on such flimsy excuses. I am Sure they could have come up with a better and more honest one. Cheers John Sabourn.

John mate, they are not changing the flag, only port of registration. The Red Duster will continue to fly as Cunard are of the opinion that the heritage value is far more valuable. Gay marriage will be high on the agenda, but ity will be the ships captain that will conduct many of the services, this is what it is all about.

---------- Post added at 04:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:39 PM ----------

Not just tax evasion. Apparently the change of registration means they are no longer subject to British labour laws. Without this I wonder about the welfare of their Crews. We all know Shipowners are B**%%@*s. Always have been and always will be.

Again a wrong assumption. None of the shipping companies are subject to British wage control, read my first post. When a shipping company is registered on both New York and London stock exchange the rules do not apply.

---------- Post added at 04:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ----------

Hi Shipmates,
The reason for the change of flag is the old age one of MONEY, its the only reason for most things in life, or maybe i am just a sceptic . You only have to ask someone in the know how much this move saves, not generates. Keith tindell

Keith mate this is not about saving, rather being able to generate more income. But as I have pointed out, THE FLAG WILL REMAIN, THE RED DUSTER WILL STILL FLY FROM CUNARD.P&O, PRINCESS AND ANY OTHER SHIPPING COMPANY REGISTERED ON BOTH STCOK EXCHANGES.

[Captain Kong]

I will be on the Queen Elizabeth in three weeks for a trip to Sydney from San Fran, 25 days , I will make enquiries, I know some of the most Senior Officers on her so should be able to get the Facts.
Let you know when I get back at end of March.
Cheers
Brian.

[Capt Bill Davies]

But as I have pointed out, THE FLAG WILL REMAIN, THE RED DUSTER WILL STILL FLY FROM CUNARD.P&O, PRINCESS AND ANY OTHER SHIPPING COMPANY REGISTERED ON BOTH STCOK EXCHANGES.[/QUOTE]

John,

Are you happy/content with that.
Sounds like a flag at any price.
My own view is that if you want to fly a flag of convenience do so. But do not demean /relegate a national flag to that status.

Brgds

Bill

[happy daze john in oz]

No it is not a flag of convinience. There are still shipping companies out there who value the Red Duster and what it stands for. Slowly there is becoming an awareness of what the MN is and was at one time. In my travels I have noticed there are a number of new plaques being put up to acknowlege the sacrifices made by the Mn during war time. It would be very easy for Cunard to now fly the Bahama flag but choose to fly the duster instead. Though they are now US owned they are still one of the few companies left with a history, and from what I have been told they intend to honour thta history.

[Capt Bill Davies]

No it is not a flag of convenience...

John,

I admire your sentiments however, please define the concept of 'A FLAG OF CONVENIENCE'.


Bill

[happy daze john in oz]

Bill I will agree that any flag can on occasions be a flag of convinience. It all depends on the reason for so using it. Most I think will agree that the normal convention is one from a minnor country, Monrovia springs to mind, when it is used to reduce the opperators costs and risks. It could be construed that Cunard are using the Red Duster to their convnience, but do we want to see it kept flying, maybe not always in the true tradituion or would we rather see it gone forever?
On an aside, Cunard is the only shipping company to still have Masters at arms. All the others call them security.
This is something on which we may never agree Bill but I will uphold your right to express your personal view as I have done here.