Denis O'Shea

[j.sabourn]

To be honest , I spent some time on ore carriers and to seamen used to a different variety of shipping in the general cargo variety , they were a piece of pzzz. There was no complicated stability and stowage problems , no running gear to contend with , they were the Daddy’s yachts of shipping , overtime was hard to cover with the paperwork , because honestly speaking there was no need whatsoever for most of it and was used to maintain and keep seamen happy and not leaving every 5 minutes . The longest trip was 6 weeks before return to the uk . For any young seafarer worth his salt and a challenge they were a ship for their grandad or an expectant father awaiting the birth of his son/daughter. I found them ideal for my purpose at my time of life. But by the same token always had itchy feet to get back to the to the real world of other shipping which required more attention whilst seeing the larger world in all its glory. This will probably bring a bit of agitation to those who only served on ore carriers and will probably bring out all sorts of hardships they endured.if so tell us about it , where the most absorbing job was greasing the wheels on the magregor hatches . Next up on easy ships to work and maintainance were the bulk carriers . Maybe some of the trouble on these ships was lack of personal incentive and should I say it ..Work. JS.

To me having been mate for a lot of years the biggest problem if it can be called that was overtime and peoples attitude to. The British system never really worked to anyones advantage. It was a necessary monetary increase to most seafarers income , but was misused and abused by all sides it affected. Today it is still not worked correctly, even though it has been replaced by a supposedly increase in wages. People use this increase to stipulate the hours of work to a mininum of 12 per day so the employer has given nothing away, he has just left himself room to do as he pleases . As said in a previous post most of us ignored the 12 hours stipulation that he insisted on and said nothing. Foreign vessels never had this problem as overtime was not a cash subject. JS

[Ivan Cloherty]

#11 agree with that John, general cargo ships with anything from 10 - 24 derricks and all the associated gear were the vessels that kept you busy, gave you headaches, but satisfaction, and normally more time in port, but not all wanted that. Cargo loading for 18 ports without overstowing, cargo plans that looked like a coloured kaliadescope; then trying to get that piece of cargo loaded with a fork lift into the for'd end of a tweendeck out of its position without a forklift without damaging it, sounds easy, but you had trimming hatches to lower hold, you had limited headroom, you had tweendeck hatch coamings, and then that welded eyebolt on deck from a previous cargo, which the previous c/o thought might be useful to retain. I'm sure there's much more, but lets not forget the kleptomaniac stevedores

[j.sabourn]

Seamen were seamen and had to be able to splice wire and do other jobs which today do not exist anymore. Ask a modern day seaman to put a spice in a crane or runner wire and he will look at you as not right in the head. They are mostly illegal and have to have ferrules instead of a splice. They may say they were taught at school how to do, but that does not compare as to having to do every day in practice in shipboard life. There is no comparison in duties today and 50 years ago and if we are honest about it all would agree, who was at sea 50 years ago.British seamen had the unfortuanetley part of our mercantile history as being treat as casual labour and never looked on by the general public as a skilled work force. The way they were treated in lots of cases by employers and public had the reciprocal effect of them looking down on those who tried to treat them in such a slovenly manner. JS

[happy daze john in oz]

Though much has changed over the last 50 or so years some things still remain.

On a cruise the other year I heard a sound not heard fort some time, chipping hammers.
The ship, Sun Princess was old and had more than it's fair share of rust.
So chipping and painting was a constant task.
She is no longer with the company having been sold off to some other unsuspecting company.

[j.sabourn]

#14 Every ship and every trade is different John. My statement about overtime I will give you one example. Most ore carriers were on at least 3 hours overtime a day for the deck. This was justified if one could hear the sounds of chipping hammers and could be put on paper as such. How do you justify the silence of the lambs on a trip up to Russia in the wintertime. ? The overtime was a sprat to catch a mackerel on most of that type of vessel. If the overtime wasnt there , then the crew was off the next time in UK. The shipowner in the case of the Ore Trade didn"t care less , because on the Bisco charters he wasn"t paying for it , the government was , but even they could question chipping and painting in force 6 and 7 weather conditions. Cargo ships with all the running gear and all the stripping down of blocks etc. could be maintained in sheltered areas , and there weren"t enough hours in the day to keep the equipment up to scratch. Two totally different lifestyles. Different outlooks on life and different skills. Anyhow when the de manning of ships occurred all those years ago , I brought that same query up about maintainance and was assured all such would be done by shore labour , even the berthing of the ship. In a rats ass , it was all gob shite in most cases and just talk to get the necessary laws passed. In our times the 50s and 60s the lowest item for costing of the running of a ship was crews wages. When seamen were given small increases and giving the shipowner palpitations at the cost of such he looked for a way out, he found it and was backed up by a labour government of all things. So much for politics I wouldn"t give any party the time of day , and as said I vote for the person not any party or associated colour of a stupid rosette. Cheers JS.

[cappy]

In catering john i was always given ...ovies on ore carriers for suggiing.....many evenings after the dinner ......all working alleyways ......must have nearly washed the paint off...remember each time we loaded and sailed plenty sugi sugi.....coming from sept isles in december there was a song out ...think it was NORTH TO ALASKA THE GOLD RUSH IS ON .....we liked that one ........managed to buy the engagement ring on that route ......bloody sugi buckets flying about in WNA conditions.....good food in your belly ...bloody good steaks once a week ....when i think there was no dust of the cargo ....yet on the colliers bloody black coal dust knee deep ......never a sugi inboard in there lifetime .......a great life for young men with no qualifications ....good comradeship.....but no future iether .....a great learning curve.....served me well in later years ...sooon spotted bullshitters trouble makers and gob shites a mile off .....sadly they still muddy the waters any way a bright sunny morning getting a bit warmer ....will mow the lawn or fanny about in the garden .....very lightly lol regards cappy

[j.sabourn]

There was always an excuse for overtime for the catering staff Cappy . Broken meal hours alone you could claim 3 . should imagine you were on about 6 a day mostly , anyhow the reason was there for. And would be a straight forward paper job for the Chief steward to fill in. Most of the Bisco runners all had their own reputations as to overtime . Dalgliesh always had the effrontery to insist on 3 hours a day maxinum for the deck. You would have thought it was coming out of his pocket. Cheers JS

[cappy]

Perhaps some kind soul would put that north to alaska the goldrush is on song on site ....in memory of the sept ilses run... On ore carriers specially in dec time lol ....shaky up and shaky down..and dont go over the wall ......singer was johnny horton .....regards cappy

[cappy]

Well as said john got the engagement ring out of that run .......if i remember there was an ore carrier out of shields from time to time called the...sept isles ....was on 4 ore carriers .....proper bobbies job ...aye about 6 hours a day overtime.....big money in the long ago times....and scranning the tins of lobster the old mans wife asked me to put in a safe place as he sometimes liked a light salad late evenings ...best safe place was cappies belly shared with a couple of good mates ....also a big round cheese......only left the bleedin vesssel when the lobster ran out in glasgow....remember the new second steward a jock asking is everthing all right ...why aye ses i ..as i scuttled ashore lol... Cappy happy days

[thomas michael]

hi cappy #16
good morning, if i was you i would just mow the lawn, as fannying about might get you in trouble with the wife.
tom

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hi cappy #18
good morning, how come they always went to seven isles in the winter,
tom