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22nd July 2020, 07:30 AM
#11
Re: Help needed with identifying a uniform
Before my time. Cheers JS.
I’ve had 4 MN uniforms In my time 1952 - 3 Battle dress- rough serge , 1958 a posh one in the appropriate material doeskin to celebrate rise in pay to 37 pounds a month. And in 1991 Merton cloth for visit to palace.last one will serve to wear in coffin. If can afford a coffin , a canvas shroud would do. Cheers JS...
Last edited by j.sabourn; 22nd July 2020 at 07:42 AM.
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22nd July 2020, 11:41 PM
#12
Re: Help needed with identifying a uniform
Originally Posted by
Ivan Cloherty
#5 MN uniform taken aboard ship, but not some dude posing for advert, otherwise the uniform would fit better and not have a bulging pocket on RH side. SWNC could be HK Swire and Warren (not sure about the Warren but rings a bell)
Well spotted Ivan
Only having trouble trying to ID the Cap Badge as its not too clear at all! Looks like a white X with Laurels , but is there a Crown at all ? There could be letters around the Cross ?? With the Pic being in B&W is it a possibility that it could be Royal Mail Line ???
Cheers
Added
On blowing the Pic up it does look like there is a Crown ,so that shows it is a MN Uniform and Cap Badge.
Is this the Company Ivan ??
https://industrialhistoryhk.org/swire-hong-kong/
Last edited by Doc Vernon; 23rd July 2020 at 12:29 AM.
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23rd July 2020, 12:47 AM
#13
Re: Help needed with identifying a uniform
Many thanks to Ivan we have a solution on this now,he supplied the Company and i did a bit of research and came up with the following!
Great work together!
Hope that the Poster will be pleased!
John Squire and Sons
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23rd July 2020, 12:50 AM
#14
Re: Help needed with identifying a uniform
Dressed in his own company livery no doubt. JS
There was a post yonks ago when the date of the actual MN uniform was placed into the realms of officialdom.
Probably about the time when the M.N. got its title. Was referred to as the mercantile marine and still is by some. The British Merchant Navy only has one uniform , and taken it seriously someone wearing a MN cap badge and company brass buttons is out of uniform and liable for any fines imposed for such. However discipline in this matter the same as most things is extremely lax. JS
The MN follows the RN in uniform regulation e.g the white cap cover used to be worn between summer dates as were stated. During my time this was changed to be worn all year round. The MN followed suit.
This has nothing to do with climate change .. I hope !!!??! JS
Further naval shoes are toecapless and have a regulation number of lace holes, hence no flip flops. And of course black in colour , and have no prejudices . Except matelotesses May have a different design and no doubt will. Be more expensive.. Male matelots hsually wear no make up such as lipstick , but. This may be underway to change due to the equality of the sexes. Peeing over the side may also be stopped as this gives the male sailors superiority over the female matelots. Big changes are in the air due no doubt to the Australian woman’s cricket teams successes . JS
Last edited by j.sabourn; 23rd July 2020 at 01:31 AM.
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23rd July 2020, 06:28 AM
#15
Re: Help needed with identifying a uniform
Originally Posted by
j.sabourn
Before my time. Cheers JS.
I’ve had 4 MN uniforms In my time 1952 - 3 Battle dress- rough serge , 1958 a posh one in the appropriate material doeskin to celebrate rise in pay to 37 pounds a month. And in 1991 Merton cloth for visit to palace.last one will serve to wear in coffin. If can afford a coffin , a canvas shroud would do. Cheers JS...
John, cardboard one available and a lot cheaper.
Happy daze John in Oz.
Life is too short to blend in.
John Strange R737787
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23rd July 2020, 08:03 AM
#16
Re: Help needed with identifying a uniform
#12, that's the one Doc, John Swire was the main company, but there were other Swires with Suffixes belonging to the holding company.
#14 John, white cap covers from 1st May until 30th September if I remember correctly, but could be worn all year round from 23.5 degrees north to 23.5 degrees south as you were in the tropics anyway, but normally it was hot enough for whites once you'd passed about 35 degrees north. Donning the whites always seemed to lift the spirits, even if it did mean more dhobi. Funny the things we remember innit!
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23rd July 2020, 08:24 AM
#17
Re: Help needed with identifying a uniform
As an apprentice used to to wear the white cap cover by itself when on the windy hammer to keep the chippings out of hair. And the galley staff also wore , a chefs tall hat being a bit too official looking , and the menus didn’t match. Plastic used to cut back on water usage with plastic cap covers and collars for shirts , The shirts maybe not being washed as they should have been , but what the eye didn’t see the Brain didn’t know. Covid 19 wouldn’t have been allowed in those days with all this hand washing unless in a bucket of salt water. Cleanliness was not next to godliness , until fresh water evaporators and distillers became the vogue. Cheers JS
Last edited by j.sabourn; 23rd July 2020 at 08:32 AM.
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23rd July 2020, 02:07 PM
#18
Re: Help needed with identifying a uniform
[QUOTE=Doc Vernon;351185]Many thanks to Ivan we have a solution on this now,he supplied the Company and i did a bit of research and came up with the following!
Great work together!
Hope that the Poster will be pleased!
The poster is delighted - thank you so much! Margaret
Last edited by Doc Vernon; 27th July 2020 at 02:29 AM.
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25th July 2020, 08:22 AM
#19
Re: Help needed with identifying a uniform
Thank you everyone for all the suggestions. I am so pleased to know what line the uniform is from, and to have the article about the Swires family and their business. I will be looking at the National Library's Trove for mentions of it.
In case it helps with the braid, I have cropped my high-res scan of the photo and attach an image that just shows the lower part of the sleeve. But I am afraid that it is still not very clear... MargaretNaval uniform 1940s 1200dpi - Copy.jpg
Last edited by Doc Vernon; 25th July 2020 at 09:52 PM.
Reason: Enlarged
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25th July 2020, 10:17 AM
#20
Re: Help needed with identifying a uniform
Margaret I have seen masters on some ships who wear 4 bands , have those bands extended to go right around the sleeve. Whether this is for pure show or is desired by their company to show seniority such as to impress passengers or not don’t know, or Commodore or not I don’t know. Maybe someone who has more knowledge may come up with the answer. Commodore is an official Naval rank next to an Admiral. In the MN is an unofficial title for a senior master in the company. In the RN to wear scrambled eggs on the cap must be of full commander rank of any department , in the MN mst be of master rank, this is for official MN uniform and not company livery. Just another bit of useless information. Regards JS.
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