Athel Line between the wars

[David Lingard]

Stone the crows, Ivor - I've just looked at the web site!

"It wasn't like that when I was a lad" as they say in God's county.

David

[Hugh]

Hi Hugh,
Request in with Kew for the document you linked to - thanks, even if the crew agreement doesn't list his previous ship it will be interesting as it refers to the last voyage of the Athelstane.

Hi David,
Expect an email from Kew stating why they cannot copy it for you and if they can it will be for silly money. If that's the case let me know and I will put you in touch with someone who will copy it for you for reasonable cost.

Regards
Hugh

[David Lingard]

Hi Hugh,

I've been "auto-chastised" for being absent so here's an update. Thanks for putting me in touch with Lee Richards, he did an excellent job at a tenth of the fee quoted by Kew. I've been studying the documents he copied and it's interesting that the ship's log was created 13 days after the original was consigned to the deep. It appears that my grandfather, a man of few words, described the loss of the vessel in 13 words and this failed to satisfy someone because the entry is crossed through and he, with the second mate, then went into much greater detail.

I've copied it,complete with minor errors and the loss of a year in parts and the survivors he picked up were from HMS Hollyhock although he appears unaware of the name of the ship at the time he wrote the account.

Next job will be at LMA after a holiday at the end of this month. I'm hoping Lee might be able to help there as well.

[Hugh]

Hello David,
Glad you managed to get what you needed from Kew. Sorry for the late reply I have been offline trying to save my website since upgrade to Windows 10

Regards
Hugh

[David Lingard]

LLoyds Register Summary.pdf

Hello Hugh and all,

Back from a lovely break in the French Pyrenees and sorry to hear of your experience with Windows 10, I'm staying with 7 as long as I can on the grounds that if it's not broken I'll not mend it.

I seem to have struck gold with LMA and the Lloyds Captains Register. The scan I asked for would be a bit "heavy" for the forum so I'm attaching (I hope!) a transcript (link above) which should be easier to read.

I think the next step, please correct me if I'm wrong, is to look for the Crew Agreements and Ships Logs for these voyages. Is it a matter of rummaging through BT381 to check that the Ship's ON is listed for the correct year to confirm that the Crew Agreement etc is held at Kew, or have I missed something? I'll be happy to have Lee chasing these up if that's all the information he would need.

I'm assuming that the Lloyds Register is a definitive source and that they won't be any other voyages - do you agree or am I missing something again?

Thanks again.

Best wishes,

David

[Hugh]

LLoyds Register Summary.pdf

Is it a matter of rummaging through BT381 to check that the Ship's ON is listed for the correct year to confirm that the Crew Agreement etc is held at Kew, or have I missed something?

Not quite that simple David.

1. Kew only has Official Logbooks/Crew Agreements for 1939-1950, those prior to WW2 you need to obtain them from the Maritime History Archive, Newfoundland, Canada. https://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/searchcombinedcrews.php - not all Crew Agreements will have a surviving Official Logbook.
also years ending in 5 are held at the NMM in Greenwich.
2. Not all Official Logbooks/CA are held in BT 381 there are some in BT99. You need the exact piece numbers for the correct year for these logbooks. I can give you that information for 1939-1950 if you need it.
3. Llyod's Register is a Primary Source. I think you have done very well getting such a comprehensive list of his service - well done!


Regards
Hugh

[David Lingard]

Thanks, Hugh,

I'm making a start with 39-45, for no special reason except that I've lost myself on the TNA web site so very often of late. I'd be grateful if you'd check my working please. I searched in BT381 on 147356 and it came up with a selection of "hits", the voyage of the Athelprice I am looking for started on 9.11.43 so I chose the file BT381/2390 - do I get a Gold Star or the dunce's cap? I'm assuming that the year to which they are allocated is the based on the start date of the voyage.

If my method is correct then I have 3 already and more should follow soon.

Thanks again,

David

[Hugh]

I will give you a Gold Star David .

Just remember that the Official Logbook/CA covers the whole year of 1943 so you only want to copy from November otherwise wasted effort and extra cost. Similarly for the rest only copy the periods that you know he was aboard.
If the voyage continued into the next year then you can check that logbook too. Any questions just ask.

Regards
Hugh

[David Lingard]

Hugh, I'm in need of a confidence boost and your help. I find myself visiting the Great Metrollops a week today and I could arrange things to have three hours in TNA at Kew. I need to book the documents so they'll be ready for me on the 25th but, being the first time I've tried this, I'm a bit worried that it might go to worms if I've got it all wrong. I'm attaching a pdf which shows wartime voyages (the first has been done) and in the right hand column is the BT document which I think is correct, I know it's a bit of an imposition but could you just run your eye over this and tell me if the Gold Star applies in all these cases? If it does I'll book the documents and arrive at Kew with a reasonably confident (?) air.
Thanks again for all your help, if this goes well then I may be trying the Canadian archive next.
Best wishes,

David

[Hugh]

Hi David,

Only two things to add to your list - you may need to look at the 1944 file to see the completion of ATHELPRINCE voyage ending 15/1/1944 - it will be held in BT 381/2867
and SCOTTISH MUSICIANS voyage that ended in 3/2/1946 - it will be held in BT 381/3849

Good luck with it.

Regards
Hugh