SS Rother & Merchant Navy

[Doc Vernon]

Hi JS
There is a site called Find my past that has a Deaths at Sea record database, Free to Join but costs to see any records! But one has to have a Name to enter to be able to find what one is looking for!
Cheers

If you perhaps remember the name let me know and i will have a prelim look for you!
Cheers


British armed forces and overseas deaths and burials | findmypast.co.uk

NB: Most all of the above lists from FMP , are held at the National Archives, however in most all cases if searching with the NA, one is directed to the FMP Site .
Cheers

And here is a very good Site which can help anyone who is Searching for Seaman and other things related to the Merchant Navy.
Well worth keeping

Merchant Navy - Death At Sea Indexes - GenGuide

[Hugh]

Is there a record showing deaths at sea Vernon

Hi John,

I tried to send you an email but it has bounced - it is probably an old email address I had for you.
I have found the information about your shipmate - I will send you a pm.

Regards
Hugh

[Hugh]

Does anyone know of any American archives that would possibly hold any information on this man.

His name is actually Louis but a lot of the records show him as Lewis. So yes it is the same person.

Could it be that because he died he was shown as discharged. He was on the same course so would have gone back on the same ship surely or would he just have found the next ship back or onwards that needed men?

Hi Scott,

At that time if, he died at sea or died ashore while signed on to a ship he would be discharged dead and the Master would have some responsibilities to record his name and details. I am assuming there would be no difference in the procedure for US ships at that time. You really need a crew list for the US ship to know for sure. Try that link from Vernon, if you get no joy. I will take another look at US records - I have some addresses but they are old ish now.

Regards
Hugh

[j.sabourn]

Hi Hugh just seen it and trying to send email address . You state 1954 it was definitely 1953 as my first trip to sea , so maybe was another one , unless my brain is that addled I am getting mixed up. So either the media reporter or myself have their years mixed up. Will try again and try to send email address via pm . Thanks for looking up . Tried looking at discharges to try and recollect but apprentices did not get discharges , my first discharge was put in by error. Maybe I am a year out , so I am going nuts maybe perhaps.
Did 2 or 3 voyages in a row Cuba/ Japan / Australia/ Europe. I suppose a first trip to me could be considered of 4 years duration . Cheers JS

[Scott McIntosh]

Hello Scott
Would this site help at all, as i am not sure if its related to what you actually seek.
Cheers

Merchant Marine Records Document Maritime Service | National Archives

Hello all,

Thank you all for your continued help on this research journey.

Just to keep you up to speed.

I followed this link above to have a look and see what I could find out about Louis Hiram Carpenter. I couldn't really see anything in the archive but I saw there was an email address so I fired off an email. I wasn't hoping for anything really as it states there is a waiting list and that records need to be approved through a different deparment. So I realised it would take some time.

Imagine my surprise when I received an email today indeed informing me that it would take some time to get to my request as they have a small team and thousand of request to get through but my record request would be sent to an advisor and they would get to it and then advise me of the cost of my record request. They have now reinstated digital copying. I felt happy that my request was going to be processed.

I read further and it said while that request would take some time they had found the individual deceased record and I could download. They sent that free of charge. Wow is all I can say. I now know everything about him from the time of his death. Dental records, body completeness record, Interment, Reinternment, Repatriation and Re-reinterment. So much information about the process.

All this and still to come in the months ahead his individual record.

There was some doubt if he was still aboard with the SS James Whitcomb Riley as there was a suggestion online somewhere that he was linked to the 2 others from the Rother. He was with his own ship for sure. The captain of the ship getting his personal belongings from both onshore and on the ship to hand over to the shipping authority back in the USA.

I will in due course post a link when my website goes live and let you all see the report.

I cant thank you all enough for the help so far.

Back to our other 2 chaps from the SS Rother Osbourn and Thacker.

Would there be a service record as such held in the UK. If so I am assuming it would be held in the National Archives.

[Scott McIntosh]

There was a Lewis H. Carpenter who joined the American SS JAMES WHITCOMBE RILEY in New York on 30.1.1943. He shows as having been discharged with the whole crew in May 1943 in New York and a new crew signed on. It is likely, if it is the same man, that he was obviously discharged before then. JAMES WHITCOMBE RILEY sailed from New York on 18 February 1943 arriving Belfast on 5 March 1943. She was in Methil from 4 April and sailed from there on 4 May back to New York.

Regards
Hugh

Hi Hugh,

Where do you find the info on Carpenter like he joined the ship in New York in 1943.

Reason I ask is so that I can look things up in future for myself.

But I will always come back to the forum and ask questions too.

[Doc Vernon]

Well Scott
Glad that you at least got some Joy from that site! As said i was not sure but always good to try !
Things are coming together now for you!

As for records for the other two, i would say Yes there should be records for them at the NA, again i am sure Hugh will come up with more info for you, i will have a look as well.
Cheers

You mention these two , do you know their dates of Birth at all , Year will help, and if possible where did they come from?
Cheers

George Alan Osborne aged 37 buried in Goole cemetery
&
Stephen Thacker aged 23 buried in Sutton In Ashfield cemetery

Well found one so far so now know his DOB, WHICH WILL HELP.
cHEERS

Stephen Thacker

BIRTH

unknown

DEATH

27 Apr 1943

BURIAL

Sutton Cemetery
Sutton-in-Ashfield, Ashfield District, Nottinghamshire, England

PLOT

Sec. A. Grave 11555.

MEMORIAL ID

207435391

[Doc Vernon]

R268092 THACKER S 17/09/1920 SUTTON IN ASHFIELD | The National Archives

R268092 THACKER S 17/09/1920 SUTTON IN ASHFIELD

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Reference:	BT 372/510/95
Description:	R268092 THACKER S 17/09/1920 SUTTON IN ASHFIELD
Date:	1913-1972
Held by:	The National Archives, Kew
Former reference in its original department:	R268092
Legal status:	Public Record(s)
Closure status:	Open Document, Open Description
Restrictions on use:	To access this record please contact the Enquiry Service (via our contact webpage or staff in the Reading Room)
Access conditions:	Open on Transfer
Record opening date:	20 February 2001

[Scott McIntosh]

Hi Doc,

I am going to the archives in February to finish off another project but I might get time to copy these records too while I am there.

I'm off to bed for now so just a quick reply but I think I have the DOB for Osborn too. His name is a little harder to find though. Osbourne, Osburn, Osborn. His Mum and Dad were from Hull so he might be too. But he is buried in Goole cemetery. This is him on the CWGC register https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/fi...e-alan-osburn/

I will look to see if I have it tomorrow after work.

[Doc Vernon]

Thanks Scott
I at this stage see an Osborne , but Born later than what i work out, your Man then was Born 1907 ? If thats correct! So will have to Trawl though more Surname Spelling variations !
Cheers

By the way if you need the Full Service of any Seaman that still has Records , you will need to obtain his CRS10 as that gives all his Sea Service . So not sure but there may then be CRS10 for those even if Died at Sea? Hugh ???

So i found this in the Deaths at Sea register, funny that only one of the two have other Records at the NA, BUT THAT IS NORMAL AS I HAVE FOUND THAT THOSE THAT DIED AT sEA DONT SEEM TO HAVE rECORDS KEPT AT THE na. Possibly somewhere else!?
Hugh may come up with some answer on this??
Cheers

Deaths at Sea.JPG

First name(s)	George Alan
Type	At Sea
Last name	Osburn
Vessel name	Rother
Birth year	1906
Source	Deaths At Sea 1891 – 1972
Birth date	1906
Archive	The National Archives
Birth place	British Goole
Archive reference	BT 334
Age	37
Box	0102
Death year	1943
Page	10
Death date	28 Apr 1943
Record set	British Armed Forces And Overseas Deaths And Burials
Death place	Askey Ainslie Hospital Edinbrs
Category	Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Place	Rother
Subcategory	Civil Deaths & Burials
Country	Great Britain
Collections from	Great Britain, UK None

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