SS Rother & Merchant Navy

[j.sabourn]

I can tell you unofficially how it was done on my first trip to sea on a merchant ship this was a natural death . The body was laid out in the steering flat and myself and the other 3 apprentices carried out a continuous watch on the body for about 6 days for any sign of life. Before committing the body to the deep the master had everyone agree that there was no signs of life. I was one of the first to agree that he was dead. Witnessed 4 deaths due to aircraft hitting the water at speed , on a naval auxiliary vessel but there had the luxury of a Naval Surgeon as part of the crew. Unofficially again you only as a last resort and that is if the death was due to foul play went into port with a dead body. The delays to the vessel would be numerous and to be avoided if possible. With the RN vessel the bodies were returned to port of course. That was our specific job to recover bodies and wreckage.
JS

[Hugh]

Hi Scott,
Do you have the death extracts for the two merchant seamen? Do you have the death extract for the American seaman?

Below is from the DAS Register

Regards
Hugh

[Scott McIntosh]

Hugh do you have the DAS for the month of April 1943?

The one on the image is for May.

And yes I have the Death Extract.

Thank

[Hugh]

Hugh do you have the DAS for the month of April 1943?
The one on the image is for May.
Thank

If you look at the two entries for ROTHER you will see the deaths are for 27 April 1943. The page heading says May because that is when the death return was entered by the Registrar General Shipping & Seamen.
Do you have the death extract for the US seaman?

Regards
Hugh

[Scott McIntosh]

Thanks Hugh,

I admit that I was on my phone at work when I first replied so hadnt taken as much care to look at the entries as I should have. I seen the entry now and this does indeed confirm that they were on gunnery practice that day.

There are a few ranges in the area but I am willing to plum for the one where all the casualties were from that day as the injuries to George Osborne are extensive burns which are consistent with the aircraft accident. I am also willing to accept that they would have been on the same course and not different ranges so I would same we have pretty much confirmed this part of the story.

As for Louis Hiram Carpenter yes I do have his death extract.

Does anyone have any experience of liberty ship records or indeed American ship or seaman records at all. Im out of my depth when it comes to Ships but learning fast and enjoying the experience.

[Hugh]

There was a Lewis H. Carpenter who joined the American SS JAMES WHITCOMBE RILEY in New York on 30.1.1943. He shows as having been discharged with the whole crew in May 1943 in New York and a new crew signed on. It is likely, if it is the same man, that he was obviously discharged before then. JAMES WHITCOMBE RILEY sailed from New York on 18 February 1943 arriving Belfast on 5 March 1943. She was in Methil from 4 April and sailed from there on 4 May back to New York.

Regards
Hugh

[Scott McIntosh]

I did a bit digging on Louis Hiram Carpenter before and came up with the story along the line of the fact that he was a bare knuckle fighter that joined a ship heading for Britain and was sunk then I think he got back on another ship bound for Britain and either again they were sunk or had a near miss. After that he made it to Britain only to be killed at the gunnery range. I have since lost this information but I do remember it reasonably well.

Does anyone know of any American archives that would possibly hold any information on this man.

His name is actually Louis but a lot of the records show him as Lewis. So yes it is the same person.

Could it be that because he died he was shown as discharged. He was on the same course so would have gone back on the same ship surely or would he just have found the next ship back or onwards that needed men?

[Doc Vernon]

Hello Scott
Would this site help at all, as i am not sure if its related to what you actually seek.
Cheers

Merchant Marine Records Document Maritime Service | National Archives

[Scott McIntosh]

Hi Doc,

I have sent them an email so we will see if they can help with any of this.

I will of course keep the forum informed.

Thanks again.

Scott

[j.sabourn]

Is there a record showing deaths at sea Vernon ?. The one I have mentioned could never remember his name but knew he was an epileptic , he just went into one of his fits and curled up on the mess room deck and died. It was sometime before anyone noticed he was dead and continued playing cards. This would have been July 1953 ,vessel the Avonmoor bound for Cuba from Belfast . Position on board Greaser . As I assisted the 2 mate in sewing him up I should have at least remembered his name . Maybe have a selective memory. Hope this medical exam next Friday don’t ask any hard questions about the past such as long forgotten names . JS