Condfused by National Archives Kew

[Hazel Stringer]

As part of my ever widening research in to Dominic Casey/Michael Stringer recently i applied to the National Archives for a specific log book.

The log book in question is for Empire Bairn(168702) - Dad served on her from 11/44 to 4/45. According to their catalogue, SHOULD be in BT 381/3631, However, they cancelled the request because they were unable to "locate" the requested material. I know it existed back in the late 1980's as I have a partial copy covering just two days. Having cancelled my copy request they referred to the "Collections Expertise and Engagements Department". Their return email to me is partially copied below:
"What was the document reference which you asked digital downloads to search through? The log book covering the ship's movements for 1944 might be in BT 381/3102 but it depends when the voyage ended, so the log might instead be in BT 381/3631 for 1945. It is quite common for the logs for a particular voyage which started in one year, to be with the crew lists for the following year when the voyage finished. The catalogue does not necessarily show that a log for a particular ship's number is available, it shows that there is something, usually a crew list, for that ship.
According to the ships movement cards in BT 389/11/43 after leaving Bizerta, Tunisia in September 1944 the ship turned up in Naples on 15 December 1944 and remained around the coast of Italy until May 1945 when it headed to Piraeus and then through the Suez Canal to Aden which it reached on 3 July and thence to Bombay, Colombo, Trincomalee and Madras. By January 1946 when the cards finish the ship had not yet returned to the UK. Depending on how assiduously they filled in the log this might also mean that the log covering 1944-1945 might even be with the 1846(sic) crew lists in BT 381/3994."

I decided to go back to TNA to check and found there are no fewer than five DT references where the log might be held! As they all have some date relevance to the period of Dad;s service. Do I just "pin the tail on the donkey"? I am unable to attend TNA due to personal circumstances and should appreciate comments on the best way to proceed.

Many thanks

hazel

[Michael Hargreave Mawson]

Let a professional researcher take the strain! I can thoroughly recommend Kevin Asplin: quick, efficient, and inexpensive. Tell him what you want, and he'll find it for you.

[Hazel Stringer]

How can I get in touch with him? Is he active on here? After the fun I have had tracking Dad down any help is useful!!!

[Doc Vernon]

Hello Hazel
Not too sure as to what you now seek, but anyway have you looked at the Ships Movements for that Period. Here is a Link for it, its Free to download if you have joined the NA. Just sign In then follow the prompts! Otherwise i can do it and send the PDF to you in your Private Email, which you can send to me through the site. Just let me know ?
Cheers

Ship Name: Empire Bairn Gross Tonnage: 813 | The National Archives

As said not too sure of what you now want! Ohhh! LOL
This Scarlet Pimpernel.

Cheers

168692; 168694; 168701; 168702 (reported missing, June 2023); 168704; 168710; 168711;... | The National Archives

Just for interest

SS Empire Bairn - Wikipedia

Costing of the person mentioned as researcher ?

Hire Researcher | Forces Reunited

[Hugh]

Looking at the movements for this ship EMPIRE BAIRN, you need to be looking in the 1946 Crew Agreement BT 381/3994 as she was not in the UK in 1945 and we can't see beyond 1945 without obtaining the VRC. The Crew Agreement is deposited once the ship arrives back in a UK port so if he joins in 1944 and the ship is away from the UK until 1946 then all the Agreements for those two years will be in with 1946. You should not need to pay expensive researchers for fairly basic research such as this.

Regards
Hugh

[j.sabourn]

#5 Hugh ref. The Empire Bairn I have over 200 empire boats listed but no Bairn. The Bs are ..Baffin, Ballard, Baron , Baxter, Beatrice, Beauty, Brutus, Bying, will have to have words with the author of the manual, if he’s still alive , used to live in Fremantle. Cheers JS
If anyone wants the history of these ships and their later names let’s know as it has to be searched for in the tome of the history of these vessels. JS

[j.sabourn]

#6. The Empire Bairn , when I see the GRT you have as less than 1000 I am assuming
Somewhere in the 524 pages in one of the summary’s there will be a paragraph which says only vessels over a certain tonnage are listed so I am sorry I queried now. It is a very expensive tome and was 0ver $75 in 1998 , I haven’t even read all the info. In it yet. Think someone bought it for me and even has a handwritten message from the author in the forward to me. Asta la vista . Hope you find what you seek. JS

[Hugh]

Just for interest

SS Empire Bairn - Wikipedia

Typical Wikipedia showing the wrong Official Number for EMPIRE BAIRN.

Regards
Hugh

[Hazel Stringer]

Looking at the movements for this ship EMPIRE BAIRN, you need to be looking in the 1946 Crew Agreement BT 381/3994 as she was not in the UK in 1945 and we can't see beyond 1945 without obtaining the VRC. The Crew Agreement is deposited once the ship arrives back in a UK port so if he joins in 1944 and the ship is away from the UK until 1946 then all the Agreements for those two years will be in with 1946. You should not need to pay expensive researchers for fairly basic research such as this.

Regards
Hugh

Hi hugh,

Thank you for clearing the confusion. I shall try for the logs dated 1946 to see if Dad's records are there.

Regards
Hazel

[Hugh]

Hi Hazel,
That document will be quite large it is the Ship's Official Logbook which contains the Crew Agreements for all the time they were away from the UK between 1944-46. If not able to visit Kew yourself then it is important that you ask whoever is copying it for you to be sure they know what they are looking for. So for example if you only want the information in the Crew Agreement - sign on and off dates. Port of engagement and dates, port of discharge and dates etc etc then ask for a copy of the Crew Agreement only, The CA is part of the Official Logbook - the file BT 381/3994. Give them dates so they can narrow things down. If you are after anything else such as any logbook entries then that is best obtained by sitting down with the document as it could be time consuming.

Regards
Hugh