Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 26

Thread: SS Effna

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Kalgoorlie Boulder, Western Australia
    Posts
    1,367
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default SS Effna

    Thanks Billy

    Photos posted early today. Please comment.

    There were some details I had yet to discover, mainly involving the Empire Tiger, so thanks for that. I was aware that severe storms had been reported in the area and that time of attack was 2332hrs but when I found these photos I just had to ask the question...Could this be Effna?????? hence I am asking if anyone can POSITIVELY ID Effna or not. Time will tell....maybe.

    Cheers

    Ian Hodges

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Blue Mountains NSW
    Posts
    24,237
    Thanks (Given)
    45047
    Thanks (Received)
    13126
    Likes (Given)
    52440
    Likes (Received)
    39396

    Default Pics ???

    Hi Ian
    Now this is just my opinion and may be way incorrect,but if you look closely at your Original Picture of the SS Effna http://www.merchant-navy.net/gallery...hp?photo=10044 ,and then look at the smaller one you have posted from those permitted Copyright ones (the one that the SS Effna is on a very bad list) http://www.merchant-navy.net/gallery...hp?photo=10051 i notice that the mast structures are different from your Original! Now this may just be my viewing of this,but on that basis i feel somehow that it may not be the same Ship ?? Ahain Ian i stand corrected! And seeing that these Pics were put on the Owners site,it would be very presumptious of me to think that he would put the incorrect info on!
    Anyway i am sure that someone will more than likely be able to sort all this put!
    Cheers

    Always interesting to have something like this to rack the old Cells! Well whats left of them haha!
    Senior Site Moderator-Member and Friend of this Website

    R697530

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Kalgoorlie Boulder, Western Australia
    Posts
    1,367
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default SS Effna

    Hi Vernon

    Thanks for your comments - its exactly what I'm after - discussions. However I'm sorry I don't see what you see???? To me they look incredibly similar. It doesn't help when the original is of so poor quality and square to the beam, slightly forward or abaft would have been better and this photo may have been taken shortly after launching in 1919....who knows. I take it that the dark superstructure was a common thing, a kind of camouflage? Any thoughts on the funnel markings?

    When I bought the images from Jim Payne of 'through their eyes' I did inform him of what I knew of the demise of the Effna and these were his replies.

    Hello Ian , I looked up the details on U-boat.net and they certainly backup your comments .
    Some background on the album ...I bought it from the worlds most respected and well known military photo dealer , a chap in the USA ..he scours the globe and has a large business . I paid top dollar for the album believing its contents to be authentic . However , I'm fully aware the militaria if full of trickery ..for example approx 50% of "original" WW2 photos on ebay are fakes ...there are many dealers on ebay with excellent feedback sell only fakes ..do a search for "photos from the Russian archives " ..they are all poor quality tea stained fakes .
    The former collector/owner of my album has put all the U-108 photos into new quality album ...I have around 100 original albums from ww2 ...many of the original pages in these albums have disintergrated badly . The former owner has added to my album many of the captions from the original album ...for example many of the crew members photos still have the original album papers and captions alongside / below .....other photos have captions typed on stickers with the photos ....the photos of the ship sinking have a sticker saying Steamer Effna is sunk with cannon . With these 6 photos of a sinking ship , we have 9 photos of captain of sunk ship and its crew 12 men in a life boat and 3 men on a tiny piece of wreckage ...there is writting on the back of these photos but it does not mention Effna . Although the captain is mentioned as the Kaptain of steamer .
    I note all crew of Effna died ...I have had the writting on reverse of photos translated ..it appears that although suppies of food and water on the u-boat were running low , the u-boat gave the men supplies ...it is possiblethey died at sea .
    The other ship identified in the album under attack is Norland ...
    I have done research on the album and will continue to do so ..up until now everything has rung true /cross referenced with information elsewhere ..I suppose it is possible the former owner made a genuine error in putting the "restored " album together .
    Some questions ...do you have any photos of the crew of Effna ,? have you have any photos of the ship ? Where has the information on the sinking time come from ? as all crew lost would it have come from Commander klaus Scholtz log or admirality records ?
    There is certainly a major inconsistancy here ...the same situation arose with the crew names ...The album has nearly all crew identified by name and rank .Initially , only 50% were on the official crew list as compared to the names on a major website ...further delving resulted in the new names being varified and have now been added to the former incomplete lists .
    Is there a possibilty that Scholtz may have falsified his records ? In general the Kriegsmarine officers were anti Nazis ..Hitler would have been furious if he knew that u-boat crews were handing out precious supplies of food and water to crews of sunk ship .........its just a thought ...Looking through the photos of the crew of U-108 , the men do not look like evil killers .
    many thanks
    jim

    and

    Hello Ian ,
    the " Effna" sinking photos have no writing on reverse ..just the printed sticker caption alongside .
    The Crew photos with them and photos of the Skipper of the steamer have plenty of writing on reverse but no mention of the actual ship they belonged to . I have had them translated on Wehrmacht-awards forum site ...an excellent resource for all things WW2 German ..many of the worlds most knowledgeable Third Reich bods on this site .
    The photos suggest the survivors believed the Germans were going to kill them ...they could also not believe the quality of the provisions the U-boat had . The skipper was bought on board U-108 for questioning and the survivors where given directions to the nearest land . One of the photos shows the survivors giving the German salute ...the photographer commented on this .
    One of the links you mention says Effna lost on 01.03.41..another discrepancy .
    I can only go by the evidence in the album ...I have no way of knowing if it is Effna being attacked ...it looks similar to the image you provided ( different angles so difficult to be certain ) ..The clincher would be a positive identification of the skipper of the sunken ship .
    If you read the account of the sinking of Norland it seems many of these ships took a long time to sink with the gun ..the crew often had plenty of time to get away . Torpedoes were in short supply on long patrols and were not overly wasted on smaller isolated targets .
    The accepted / official account of the demise of the Effna may well be true ...and the album details merely an error or deception ..at this point I do not know the truth .
    mystified jim

    So there you are......Always glad to read your comments
    Regards Ian

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Hertfordshire
    Posts
    456
    Thanks (Given)
    161
    Thanks (Received)
    120
    Likes (Given)
    95
    Likes (Received)
    391

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeepSea View Post

    It would suggest at the time of her loss, the Effna was still struggling in the same atrocious weather conditions
    Rgds Billy
    The weather conditions at the time of sinking, and those in the photos don't really go together.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Stockton-on-Tees
    Posts
    1,715
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    2447
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2108

    Default

    Ian,

    I contacted Rainer Kolbicz at U-boat.net and expert in this field, who has looked into your request and has sent me the following details below


    Hi Billy

    It is simply not possible that these photos show EFFNA as this ship was sunk by a torpedo attack at night!

    After examining the photos and comparing them to all attack descriptions of U-108 there is only one case in which a torpedoed ship was finished off at daylight with artillery and sank by the bow. In my opinion the photos of the ship show the sinking of NICOLAS PATERAS on 25 June 1941. The two rings visible on the funnel can also be seen on the photo we have on uboat.net of this ship: http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/1007.html

    Moreover I think the photos of the lifeboat and the man taken aboard are not from the same attack, but from the encounter of U-108 with a lifeboat from DIRPHYS on 10 June 1941. The details can be found here: http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/975.html
    __________________
    Best regards

    Rainer
    "Across the seas where the great waves grow, there are no fields for the poppies to grow, but its a place where Seamen sleep, died for their country, for you and for peace" (Billy McGee 2011)

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default SS Effna

    Hi Ian
    I'm compiling some family history and one of my cousins was a member of the crew of the 'Effna' and I was interested in your comment that you had a photo of some of the crew in their lifeboat. My cousin was a 20yr old and was one half of twins - I have a photo of him with his sister (now dec'd) and the family all believed Freddie had gone down with the ship - it would be interesting - though sad - to see if he was originally one of the survivors. If I can be of help, please let me know. Kind regards

    Norman Gill

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cebu, Philippines district of Punta Princessa.
    Posts
    1,856
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    39
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    36

    Default Re ss effna

    THE SEA CONDITIONS OF THE LIFEBOAT PHOTOS ARE NOTHING LIKE ATLANTIC STORM CONDITIONS, HARDLY ANY WHITE CAPS ON THE WAVES, IN FACT REASONABLY CALM FOR THAT AREA,

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Western Subs of Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    763
    Thanks (Given)
    565
    Thanks (Received)
    741
    Likes (Given)
    1308
    Likes (Received)
    1447

    Default

    Hi Ian,

    For what it's worth, I have to agree with the comments of others on this site who doubt the veracity of the 'pics' purporting to relate to the sinking of the 'Effna'.

    Whilst I understand that photographs can sometimes be misleading, I make the following observations.

    1. If one were to draw an imaginary line from table to table of the two masts on the stricken vessel, it does seem they are markedly lower than the top of the funnel. Although of poor quality, the original photograph of the 'Effna' suggests otherwise.

    2. In the 'pic' showing the full length of the vessel listing to starboard there is little evidence of the 'raised' poop shown in the original photograph. It could be said that this is due to the angle of the vessel at the time the photograph was taken, but I'm inclined to think otherwise.

    3. As Don and Tony point out in posts #14 and #17 the sea and weather conditions at the time the 'pics' were taken are inconsistent with the reported weather conditions prevailing at the time the Effna was sunk.

    4. In the photo showing a member of the U-boat crew looking down at the survivors in the lifeboat, I note his total lack of 'heavy-weather' winter clothing.

    5. Whilst I know I draw a long-bow here, I have to say that the photo of the Captain of the sunken ship, is of a man looking decidedly un-Scottish. More Greek-looking, or similar, to my mind.

    6. Most significantly, since the reported attack upon the Effna commenced at 2332hrs., it's doubtful that the U-boat would wait for several hours, until daylight, in order to complete the task of sinking her by gunfire. I think it unlikely that a prudent U-boat Commander would choose to remain in or near the position of an earlier attack for such a prolonged period, i.e six or seven hours, and thereby increase the risk of his presence being made known to allied air and surface units.

    Like so many others on this site, I have had first-hand experience of the North Atlantic in wintertime, when these photos were supposedly taken, and quite frankly there is much that doesn't add up. The suggestion that the U-boat crewman, Willi Wilke, may have been in error when making the original captions to the 'pics' or, subsequently, a compiler or collector has made an innocent mistake, may well be worth serious thought. Whilst it is a decision only you can make, in the absence of any further information to the contrary, were I you, I'd be inclined to place more credence in the opinions of Billy McGee and his German contact/expert, Rainer Kolbicz.

    Regardless of what may transpire, Ian, I do hope that you reach a satisfactory conclusion to your inquiries.


    ......regards, Roger
    Last edited by Roger Dyer; 5th January 2012 at 06:23 AM. Reason: added text

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cebu, Philippines district of Punta Princessa.
    Posts
    1,856
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    39
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    36

    Default re ss effna

    as roger suggests, the funnel on the sinking ship is taller and wider than the one shown on photo of ss Effna, also original photo the lifeboats are white, not same colour as shown with survivors , but the most serious error is the timescale, attacked and sunk at night in heavy weather, photos are in daylight with relatively calm seas, the North Atlantic does not go from severe weather storm conditions, to calm in a few hours. i seem to remenber these photos of the lifeboats elsewhere, but it escapes me at present. tony w.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Register of Deceased Seamen on Effna

    When doing genealogy research on my 2nd cousin x1 removed, James Owen Pearson (Radio Officer on the SS Effna), I found the Register of Deceased Seamen for the Effna on Research your family tree and family history today | Findmypast.co.uk. I'll be happy to e-mail scans of the 2 pages to anyone who requests them. Since I have no idea whether there are copyright issues, I don't think I can just upload these to your website.

    This register provides the name, age, rank, birthplace, last place of abode (+/- next of kin), cause of death (all shown as "Missing -- supposed drowned"), a remark of "Missing since 1st March 1941. List sent 29/9/41", and Official Reference of "C (or ?B) & D".

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •