Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: William John Murray - lost at sea or absconded c 1927?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Location
    Winchester
    Posts
    7
    Thanks (Given)
    6
    Thanks (Received)
    7
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    16

    Default William John Murray - lost at sea or absconded c 1927?

    Hello
    This is a request for some assitance in tracking down exactly what happened to my grandfather William John Murray.
    He was employed out of Liverpool as a "casual shipwright" with Canadian Pacific Ocean Serivices between, as far as it known, 1919 and 1927.
    I have attached a data sheet giving as much information as possible regarding his origins and his life as far as is known.

    My problem: William John Murray was reported as "lost at sea" when my mother (his daughter) was 4 years old. This would have been 1927. There is no documentation whatsoever that I can locate. No certificate of death, no reports. It is speculated that if he was not killed on the voyage, then he may have arranged to abscond on arrival in possibly New York - but we do not know.

    Additional information not included on the data sheet:

    Ellis Island records have been partially interrogated, but no concrete results. One possible lead (although the dates do not tally with the the evidence from his daughter) is a William Murray - listed on the list of aliens employed as crew on the ship Leviathan - sailing from Southampton and arriving New York December 21st 1924. Passenger ID 600168020193. This is of interested because the name has a pencil line running through it on the manifest which, according to Ellis Island staff, indicated that the person "failed to disembark".

    I am not certain he falls into the category of "seaman" as his job was, as far as is known, was "shipwright". However, it is possible that he took other roles which involved travelling on the ships out of Liverpool (although the above if out of So'ton).

    At this point I would be grateful for any help which can be given - in respect of actual searches or at least referral onwards.

    Note also that my second cousin, Tony Byrne, has also tried a search previously in which he was helped enormously by Marian Gray - but unfortunately the proper name and dates had by that stage not been uncovered. There is a thread of Tony's exchanges on this site under "Missing at Sea" - but I am not sure how to link directly to that.

    Grateful for any help.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Blue Mountains NSW
    Posts
    24,237
    Thanks (Given)
    45047
    Thanks (Received)
    13126
    Likes (Given)
    52440
    Likes (Received)
    39396

    Default Re: William John Murray - lost at sea or absconded c 1927?

    As you mention it states that he Died at Sea most probably, as this shows!

    Not sure of cause, but as they have a place noted it seems he was Buried in Dulwich UK. From that it surely can be possible to check the Burial records , and if so there must be a cause and Death Certificate held somewhere ??
    Cheers

    First name(s)

    William


    Last name

    Murray


    Year

    1928


    Place

    Dulwich


    Country

    Great Britain


    Archive reference

    BT 334


    Source

    Deaths At Sea 1891 – 1972


    Senior Site Moderator-Member and Friend of this Website

    R697530

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Cooma NSW
    Posts
    8,967
    Thanks (Given)
    10195
    Thanks (Received)
    5220
    Likes (Given)
    44136
    Likes (Received)
    26883

    Default Re: William John Murray - lost at sea or absconded c 1927?

    Hi John.
    A shipwright was a seaman, he was the ships carpenter, so his being at sea was no problem.
    Des
    R510868
    Lest We Forget

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Location
    Winchester
    Posts
    7
    Thanks (Given)
    6
    Thanks (Received)
    7
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    16

    Default Re: William John Murray - lost at sea or absconded c 1927?

    Hi Doc, Very many thanks for your help - I am sorry it has taken a while to respond - not quite used to the forum yet. I will certainly check the Dulwich connection. This has moved the search on. Thank you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks, Des - that is helpful as the MN is a new area for me as I get into this search. Most appreciated - and apologies for tardy response.

  5. Thanks Des Taff Jenkins thanked for this post
    Likes Doc Vernon liked this post
  6. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Location
    Winchester
    Posts
    7
    Thanks (Given)
    6
    Thanks (Received)
    7
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    16

    Default Re: William John Murray - lost at sea or absconded c 1927?

    Hello Doc
    Just a further question, if you don't mind, re the William John Murray I am searching for. Was the record extracted from Ancestry, Find My Past - or from another dedicated archive? Just trying to clarify to which the archive the reference BT 334 might stand for. It may help when I start to dig into (no pun intended of course) the burial records. Thanks for your patience with this.
    Many thanks
    JP

  7. Thanks Doc Vernon thanked for this post
    Likes Denis O'Shea, Des Taff Jenkins liked this post
  8. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Blue Mountains NSW
    Posts
    24,237
    Thanks (Given)
    45047
    Thanks (Received)
    13126
    Likes (Given)
    52440
    Likes (Received)
    39396

    Default Re: William John Murray - lost at sea or absconded c 1927?

    Hello John P
    That Ref is for the National Archives as such BT 334, however i got the info from Find My Past, which is a paid site!
    Good Luck
    Cheers


    Board of Trade: Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen: Registers and Indexes of Births, Marriages and Deaths of Passengers and Seamen at Sea (nationalarchives.gov.uk)

    I notice that in BT157 as mentioned in the PDF File above , that it referres to Cause of Deaths, i am not fimilar with this one, so dont know if it would ead you to more info ??

    Possibly if our Hugh reads this he may be able to clarify ?
    Cheers
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 13th October 2022 at 08:07 PM.
    Senior Site Moderator-Member and Friend of this Website

    R697530

  9. Thanks John Powdrill thanked for this post
  10. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Inverness, Scotland
    Posts
    1,683
    Thanks (Given)
    272
    Thanks (Received)
    1891
    Likes (Given)
    1154
    Likes (Received)
    2838

    Default Re: William John Murray - lost at sea or absconded c 1927?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Vernon View Post
    As you mention it states that he Died at Sea most probably, as this shows!
    Not sure of cause, but as they have a place noted it seems he was Buried in Dulwich UK. From that it surely can be possible to check the Burial records , and if so there must be a cause and Death Certificate held somewhere ??
    #2, This seaman was not buried in Dulwich UK but died aboard the ship DULWICH official number 162564. The seaman's home address was in Waterford, Ireland so I do not think this record is relevant.

    BT 157 that Vernon refers to would not help as the time frame of the records is outwith the period that the enquirer is looking at.

    Regards
    Hugh
    "If Blood was the price
    We had to pay for our freedom
    Then the Merchant Ship Sailors
    Paid it in full”


    www.sscityofcairo.co.uk

  11. Thanks cappy, Doc Vernon, John Powdrill thanked for this post
    Likes cappy, Des Taff Jenkins liked this post
  12. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Blue Mountains NSW
    Posts
    24,237
    Thanks (Given)
    45047
    Thanks (Received)
    13126
    Likes (Given)
    52440
    Likes (Received)
    39396

    Default Re: William John Murray - lost at sea or absconded c 1927?

    My apologies for any error i have posted on this site , it is not meant as a distraction, it is just things that really look like it may be relevant!

    But Hugh know better than me !

    Possibly now that Hugh is back seems a lot more , i should refrain from doing researching for now! I find a lot of things on the Internet, and at times the info does NOT refer to a name !
    Cheers
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 14th October 2022 at 09:15 PM.
    Senior Site Moderator-Member and Friend of this Website

    R697530

  13. Thanks John Powdrill thanked for this post
    Likes happy daze john in oz liked this post
  14. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Inverness, Scotland
    Posts
    1,683
    Thanks (Given)
    272
    Thanks (Received)
    1891
    Likes (Given)
    1154
    Likes (Received)
    2838

    Default Re: William John Murray - lost at sea or absconded c 1927?

    There is absolutely no need to apologise for trying to help with this thread. Don't worry Vernon I have no intention of being a regular poster on here. Much too busy, so please carry on.
    Regards
    Hugh
    "If Blood was the price
    We had to pay for our freedom
    Then the Merchant Ship Sailors
    Paid it in full”


    www.sscityofcairo.co.uk

  15. Thanks Doc Vernon thanked for this post
    Likes Des Taff Jenkins, cappy liked this post
  16. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Location
    Winchester
    Posts
    7
    Thanks (Given)
    6
    Thanks (Received)
    7
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    16

    Default Re: William John Murray - lost at sea or absconded c 1927?

    Thanks to all for trying to help - all ideas are welcome. i am fining that trying to establish the fate of our William John Murray, a shipwright from Walton, Liverpool who died or somehow disappeared in 1927 or thereabouts is a task which will have many potential directions. At this stage all help is welcomed.

  17. Thanks Doc Vernon thanked for this post
    Likes Hugh, Denis O'Shea liked this post
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •