(Repost) Sailing Ship Speed - Barque

[Rob Will]

Apologies in advance for the repost, but my previous thread doesn't seem to be active. When I click on it, I get only a blue screen. I am assuming that others may also not be able to read it as there are well over 100 views but only 1 response (which is also invisible). All other threads seem to be working just fine. Anyway - sorry if this issue only applies to me.

I am seeking information about a 295 ton barque first registered by Lloyds in 1853 called the "Rose" out of Sunderland, England. In late October, 1854, this ship was on a return voyage which took it between Alexandria, Egypt and Cagliari, Sardinia. I am interested in approximately how long such a voyage would have taken on ship like this in 1854. The distance is approximately 1360 nautical miles.

Any information / educated guesses from the experts here would be welcome. Thanks in advance.

[Doc Vernon]

Hello Rob
Apologies from the Admin on that , there seems to have been some Bug somewhere and your Original Post was affected! It had something to do with an addition (Reply added) possibly the database did not like it?
Anyway glad to see you repost as i was going to Text you about it Today!
Hope you now get some good replies!
Again our apologies!
Cheers

[Rob Will]

Thanks Doc. No replies so far. Looks like a barque of that era should have been capable of doing about 6 nauts - so maybe 10 days?? I'm no expert, so that's a pretty rough estimate.

[Doc Vernon]

Could be about right but with Weather etc thrown into account , think it would have been more like 13 days or so, at an average of 4.5 Nautical Miles an Hour Bill ??
But who knows.
Hard Sailings those days !
Cheers

[Doc Vernon]

Only Rose i have found depicts Off Number as 108 , and she was only a 64 Tonner
Registry date noted as 12th January 1855 London. No other info such as Speed!
Cheers


Added
Just found the one but no info as such just the Official Number was 15490 Sunderland
Cheers

[wightspirit]

You might want to visit your nearest reference library and ask to view the British Newspaper Archive. Select the dates you want - suggest early October 1854 to the end of November 1854, and search two newspapers: Lloyd's List and the Shipping & Mercantile Gazette. Assuming I've located the right ship, I believe the master's name was Stothard. Search using that name rather the ship's name (there were a number of ships named Rose trading at the same time so it'll save time by using Stothard; you won't become sidetracked by other Rose's).

I've had a look and there are entries for Rose and Stothard; Alexandria and Cagliari are mentioned, etc. Some of the information is a touch difficult to determine - you'll see what I mean - but the information is there.

Dave W

[wightspirit]

I should add - Lloyd's Register for 1854 gives the master's name as J Stotherd rather than Stothard.

Dave W

[Rob Will]

Dave: Yes - that is the ship. Master was James Stothard and builder was John Crown of Southwick. First registered at Lloyd's in 1853/54. There were indeed several ships named Rose operating out of Sunderland in the early to mid 1800's, but I'm pretty confident about this one.

I have an 1855 record of the dispersal of wages owing to the family of a sailor who died onboard the Rose in October, 1854 (my great x 2 grandfather). On the record, the Master's name is listed as Stothard. I have also seen the "Stotherd" spelling, but that is likely a typo, as this is almost certainly James Stothard, born 1817, in Monkswearmouth, Sunderland.

I will assume that 4.5 nauts is a reasonable speed for that time and ship. That would make the voyage about 14 days more or less - obviously depending on if they made other stops (i.e. Sicily or Malta).


Thanks to the forum for all your help and information.

[wightspirit]

It now depends on how far you want to take your research. The ship's crew agreements and logs are held at the National Archives under these references: 1854: https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/C4068372 and 1855: https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/C4068684

These are not downloadable so it means a personal visit or pay the staff or a private researcher to copy them. Well worth a personal visit - far more rewarding.

Dave W

[j.sabourn]

When I did a tour around the Cutty Sark. In 1962 her speed was an obvious question by tourists . It was pointed out by posted information on the ship that she never broke any records during her working life , this was put down whether right or wrong that she was never sailed to her full capabilities and that her longest serving master was a very prudent man when it came to carrying the amount of sail to do so. The Thermopylae on the other hand was mentioned as a much faster vessel.A sailing vessel only sails to the whims of its master. And of course the direction and force of the winds currents etc.so only God knows what speed a sailing vessel will do apart from her builders who make other claims to her expected performances. My only experience on a sailing vessel was the Leeuwin home port Fremantle , and I was surprised how close into the wind she would go. Also how easy it was to recognise how close you were to coming into stays by a little brass pointer next to the wheel showing the wind direction reference to the vessels head , this was a simple arrangement between an anemometer at topmast regions and the result transferred to the brass arrow. I felt cheated as always imagined someone standing there in oilskins and South Wester looking aloft and trying to judge how much closer into the wind they could come. Was like learning there was no Santa Claus. All part of our imagination and lack of knowledge that seafarers accumulated in those days.
JS