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11th November 2021, 06:26 PM
#1
Melrose Abbey
I would be grateful if members can assist me with the following question -
Was the ship Melrose Abbey - OFFICIAL NUMBER 162109 armed ?
My father was a survivor when she was torpedoed on 27th December, 1942.
Many thanks for your assistance.
Patricia
Last edited by Brian Probetts (Site Admin); 13th November 2021 at 11:27 PM.
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11th November 2021, 09:31 PM
#2
Re: Melrose Abbey
Hello Patricia
MELROSE ABBEY SS was a British Cargo Steamer of 2,473 tons built in 1936. On the 27th December 1942 when on route from London & Loch Ewe for Boston & Trinidad in Convoy ONS-154 carrying a cargo of 3,403 tons of coal and 7 bags of mail she was torpedoed by German submarine U-356 and sunk Nne of the Azores. 7 crew lost from a total of 34. The master, 22 crew members and four gunners were picked up by the British rescue ship Toward (Master Arthur James Knell Mbe Dsc), transferred to HMCS Shediac (k 110) (Lt J.E. Clayton) and landed at Ponta Delgada, Azores
Again not sure if she was armed but will investigate later
Cheers
Added
A short note from an Article ,so this may clear things up a wee bit.
Naval Warfare: S.S. Melrose Abbey
Rescue ships carried only light defensive armament, such as machine guns and anti-aircraft cannons, and had special high-frequency radio direction-finding sets (HF/DF), which would enable the ships to locate enemy submarines that were stalking a convoy. Once the rescue ships located a U-boat, they would warn the other ships in the convoy of the submarine’s location. Rescue ships also carried motor lifeboats and life rafts to pick up survivors.
Last edited by Doc Vernon; 11th November 2021 at 09:54 PM.
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11th November 2021, 11:29 PM
#3
Re: Melrose Abbey
Just for information 'Melrose Abbey' was owned by AHL (Associated Humber Lines) and pre-war ran a regular cargo passenger service from Goole to Rotterdam/Amsterdam, her sister ships ran service from Goole/Hull to Antwerp.
Re-Armed Merchant ships, there may be records somewhere deep in archives that list what merchant ships were supplied with what armaments, but as explained earlier in another post in the early years there was a shortage of guns for MN ships and that is why they were supplied with wooden dummy artillery pieces on the poop deck and guns of 1919 vintage. Later on many seamen,my father included went on Oerlikon (heavy pom-pom pedestal mounted machine guns) gunnery courses and these were the heaviest guns carried on ordinary merchant ships from about 1942 onwards. Armed Merchant Cruisers used as convoy escorts could be fitted with 4 inch single barrel turret guns as well as upgraded Oerlikon anti-aircraft guns.
I think asking if an individual ship was fitted with guns and what type may be like asking how long is a piece of string, especially in the earlier part of the war at sea and one must assume that the majority were not armed otherwise authorities would not have resorted to fitting wooden decoy guns and useless Japanese 1919 vintage AA guns.
However we have wonderful volunteer researchers on here who do not like to be beaten, and you can bet your bottom dollar someone will/may come up trumps.
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12th November 2021, 01:57 AM
#4
Re: Melrose Abbey
Thankyou for your post. Would the "gunners" be crew that armed defensive weapons?
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12th November 2021, 08:46 AM
#5
Re: Melrose Abbey
Originally Posted by
Patricia Meiring
Thankyou for your post. Would the "gunners" be crew that armed defensive weapons?
There were many Army and RN personnel assigned to merchant vessels during WWII, in addition thousands of MN personnel were trained in shore establishments to use DEMS equipment whilst on leave.
DEMS : , Defensive Equipment for Merchant Ships, part of which included sealed orders and naval directions for ships at sea, these were carried well into the 1960's. each vessel had a similar set of instructions under lock and key in shipping offices ashore and had to be regularily updated (part of my remit as a Supt). Also ships built after 1945 were still being built with strengthened foc'les, poop decks and bridge wings enabling them to have various guns mounted.
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12th November 2021, 06:10 PM
#6
Re: Melrose Abbey
Thankyou for your post Marian. My father was an engineer. When he was aboard P.L.M. 13 his convoy was subjected to aerial attack off the coast of Oran and I wondered if the ship had any means of defence. The link will be a great source of information.
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12th November 2021, 07:55 PM
#7
Re: Melrose Abbey
Hi Patrica. In Ships in Focus RECORD 18. THE PLM COLLIERS 12 to 27 by Roy Fenton. There are photos of PLM 13 one in New York taken 17/10/1942 showing armament on the stern.
Bill
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12th November 2021, 09:18 PM
#8
Re: Melrose Abbey
1942 Scan_0011 MANNING A GUN.jpg
From my Dad's notes...Rescue Ship COPELAND
" A vital part of the Ship's equipment was the Defensive Arms. Whilst carrying out rescue work the probability of being attacked was always present. Being alone and unprotected and having to make good six or seven miles to rejoin the Convoy , meant several hours of alertness and tremendous suspense.
We had a ' Four Inch Gun' and that could be our salvation. The personnel responsible for armaments were the Naval and Army Gunners in the charge of a Leading Seaman.
The Ship's Chief Officer was in overall charge of the Gunnery. With the addition of the Naval and Army personnel this increased the Ship's crew to 73"
There follows a load of stuff about Huff Duff . Let me know if you ever want to read it !
Brenda
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13th November 2021, 04:08 PM
#9
Re: Melrose Abbey
Originally Posted by
Patricia Meiring
I would be grateful if members can assist me with the following question -
Was the ship Melrose Abbey - OFFICIAL NUMBER 162109 armed ?
My father was a survivor when she was torpedoed on 27th December, 1942.
Many thanks for your assitance.
Patricia
Hi Pat, Here are 10 names from your Fathers ship,
Aboard Melrose Abbey when hit on 27 Dec 1942
You can click on any of the names for possible additional information
Name Age Rank Served on
De Clark, Lamuel Charles, Merchant Navy 33 Fireman and Trimmer Melrose Abbey +
Gish, Lionel Joseph, Merchant Navy 18 Assistant Steward Melrose Abbey +
Harley, George Duncan, Merchant Navy 28 Cook Melrose Abbey +
Kerrison, William James, Merchant Navy Able Seaman Melrose Abbey
Low, Archibald Brown, Merchant Navy 49 Chief Engineer Officer Melrose Abbey
May, George Alfred Frank, Merchant Navy 28 Fireman and Trimmer Melrose Abbey +
McGhee, Robert Duncan, Merchant Navy 19 Steward Melrose Abbey +
Mudie, Charles Harvey Alex, Merchant Navy 51 Chief Engineer Officer Melrose Abbey +
Ormod, Frederick J., Merchant Navy Master Melrose Abbey
Stocks, Joseph, British Army 22 Gunner (DEMS gunner) Melrose Abbey +
As you can see she was armed with a DEMS gunner, This info is from U Boat.net
If you have any other additional information on the ship or if your Father is not listed the site would appreciate any new info on the sinking of the Melrose Abbey, Perhaps you could add some info for 1.ooos of visitors the world over here is the link to the page with the relevant info Regards Terry.
https://www.uboat.net/allies/merchan.../ship2532.html
{terry scouse}
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14th November 2021, 01:55 AM
#10
Re: Melrose Abbey
Thankyou so much for this information Bill. I am writing a pictorial biography of my father's career at sea - a photo from this collection witl be a very valuable addition.
With Kind Regards,
Patricia
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