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Thread: Sea chest and painting information request

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Sea chest and painting information request

    Hi Marian.
    Thank you for your interest and research. I do not know what happened to Edward, his brother John and sister Ellen around the time of the 1871 census. Edward may have returned from his voyage to Australia at the age of 12 and been placed on a training ship in the Thames. I do not know when or how Edward's father (also named Edward) died, only that in 1881 his wife Abby was a widow. Edward's wife was Elizabeth Holloway (married December 1888).
    Marian you are correct when stating that Edward was a man of mystery. I know that he liked to play mind games with other people and leave clues to his identity and I was hoping that the signal flags on the Airlie painting in the sea chest would be part of his game.
    I have not seen this quality of painting and detail inside any other sea chest. For me the artistry of the 'Airlie at Sea' by John Henry Mohrmann and sea chest lid painting differ only in that the ships are pointing in opposite directions and of course in their signal flags.
    And so obviously I'd be over the moon if there were any clues or games hidden in the sea chest painting. Many thanks Neil

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: Sea chest and painting information request

    Yes I checked the census records too, that's usually my second port of call [excuse the pun] I thought it rather extravagant of him with the painting of the SS Airlie inside the trunk considering the family were not particularly comfortable and was wondering were transfers or similar around at that time as JHM only took commissions. Still perplexed re lack of paper trail for Edward couldn't find a connection with the Elephant & Castle brigade either who as you know were fervent in their field. He doesn't seem to have gained by that either. Are you positive about him only serving one gaol stint? and do you have all the clipping from the newspapers? last one I read was from 1889 if indeed him, address missing again. Thank you for his wife's name.

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  5. #53
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    Default Re: Sea chest and painting information request

    JS #45. Single Letter Int.Code Sigs.
    Those bring back memories John, as a Cadet tidying out the flag locker-well,it made a change from polishing the brass,bilge-diving and chipping the decks-all the things an aspiring deck officer must know before he can navigate a ship- or maybe not,but we all did it-my poor gnarled hands today are testimony to my time spent as a Cadet 50 years ago.
    I learnt the 1969 Code,although you probably learned the preceding one as well.

    J = I am on fire and have a dangerous cargo on board/ or I am leaking dangerous cargo.(Probably the last thing you'd think of ,hoisting such a signal at that moment "Oh,I say Cadet,go and hoist the 'J' flag,there's a good man,as we are on fire and all about to be blown sky-high at any moment")

    K =i wish to communicate with you. That drops the semaphore obligation then.)
    L = You should stop your vessel instantly.(Particularly pertinent when your loaded 400,000 tonne deadweight ULCC tanker takes about 7 miles to stop.)
    R =No meaning now(.I'm not surprised as it's previous meaning of: The way is off my vessel-you may feel your way past me at slow speed,always conjured up a vision of an old Panamanian freighter bumping it's way down the side of your new,freshly drydocked painted hull !)
    Thank God for VHF Radio! (Glad Semaphore's gone too !- it must have been a 'mare' for the dyslexic !Semaphore.gifWenever we practised it at college it was all we could do to avoid poking someone's eye out or clashing flags with a loud thwack as you got entangled with your neighbours flags,especially after a pint or two at lunchtime.....

  6. #54
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    Default Re: Sea chest and painting information request

    Always wondered what happened to the old J flag. There must have been a lot of calls to the flag makers for such, as they would have a short life span what with all the sparks out the funnel and the occasional flare up. Even as late as 1970 I was sailing on some ships with no VHF. Some of the owners I sailed with were very poor and hard up and really couldn’t afford such luxuries. When I think back I must have been brainwashed to believe them . Cheers JS
    R575129

  7. #55
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    Default Re: Sea chest and painting information request

    Hi Marian,
    Yes Edward was in prison for four years from March 1880-1884. Highway robbery!

  8. #56
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    Default Re: Sea chest and painting information request

    Neil, Couldn't resist having a look for Elizabeth Holloway born in Bethnal Green 1866 and Edward Coleman's father. What a mix up with the trees pertaining to them. The four available including a female with your surname all agree with the wedding date 2/ 12/ 1888 but two have listed Edward's father as Henry and his mother, Eliza! One tree doesn't name either of them and the fourth has Edward dying 1907. The others as 1927! Then in the 1911 census Edward is a widower and working as a dock labourer. Going further back to 1881 Edward is listed as a carpenters labourer which might explain the trunk! But not the gaol sentence....Then in the 1871 they have Edward as destitute aged 21yrs when he was really 11yrs and entering the Workhouse. Nothing stacks up. It appears unless birth and death certificates are purchased to prove beyond reasonable doubt correct names for his parents, and that he wasn't informally adopted by Henry & Eliza then his extended family are going round in circles. It only takes one person to copy someone elses mistake then mayhem ensues all round. Hope you don't mind me suggesting all that needs to be rectified before you proceed further and bear in mind folklore passed down by word of mouth inevitably get padded out/embelished enroute That well known hypothetical old adage about the soldiers in the trenches during WW1. Order bellowed ''Send reinforcements we are going to advance'' and by the time is gets to the end of the line it becomes ''send three and four pence we're going to a dance'' Happens to us all. Best of luck.

    #55, Re the 'Highway Robbery' the Court case I read was of an Edward Coleman throttling a woman in her bed and being told she'll be murdered if she makes a noise, she was then robbed. The second one involved another woman but I would have to look it up again as I've forgotten her case. The main problem is that there are so many Edward Coleman's.
    Last edited by Marian Gray; 26th July 2021 at 08:09 PM. Reason: Added text

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  10. #57
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    Default Re: Sea chest and painting information request

    Hi Marian,
    If you are on Findmypast please look up newspaper reports for Edward Coleman, Edward Mackie, James and Daniel Baines for March 1880.

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  12. #58
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    Default Re: Sea chest and painting information request

    Hi everyone, does anyone have any one have any more thoughts on the painting on the inside of the sea chest. I believe that this may provide the lost information I have been searching for. Many thanks Neil

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