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Thread: Timber carrier listing

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    Default Timber carrier listing

    Borrowed this photo from elsewhere. I asked the question why the list. Was she aground, Cargo shifted , or Ballast cock up. Looking at the photo again I reckon bad weather and her hold has shipped a lot of water down below.

    Rise of Center of Gravity (decrease of Metacentric Height) due to deck timber cargo water absorption ...

    So what do our deck crew members think of the above answer as to what has caused the list on this ship?

    I have sailed on a purpose built timber carrier the FP Clipper for over 14 months and the only time we ever had a problem was we got hit by a rouge wave mid Atlantic which knocked us flat. We lost the bulk of the deck cargo and we righted ourselves. The roll was violent enough and severe enough for the Main Engine to trip out. Reason for the trip was the main engine lub oil pump lost suction and caused thelow pressure oil trip to activate the shutdown. It was a brown trouser moment. We always loaded sawn timber on deck more or less right up to bridge level and it was always loaded wet. WE loaded out of BC , Vancouver and Prince Rupert. I have also carried logs from West Africa on old mid ship built ships ED's during the late 60's/70's
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 9th June 2021 at 11:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Timber carrier listing

    BUTENDIEK - IMO 5405724 - Callsign HO4859 - ShipSpotting.com - Ship Photos and Ship Tracker

    Just info on her various names Lewis!


    Just by looking , and i more than likely am incorrect but seems that there is more Timber on her Port side than her Starboard ? That may be the reason she is listing to Port!
    As she was on her way onto Goole seems that it was no big issue at the time ??
    Movement at Sea possibly also a reason , not secured correctly !
    Who Knows LOL
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 10th June 2021 at 12:26 AM.
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    Default Re: Timber carrier listing

    We get a lot of timber here in Oz from NZ, well they are just next door.

    There have been over the years problems with logs moving and heavy seas soaking the timber.
    Most of it comes as logs many just cut so still very green.
    Have seen them being loaded in NZ ports and they can be a bit of a problem at times it would appear.

    They are kiln dried here then cut to size.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

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    Default Re: Timber carrier listing

    Have carried many timber deck cargoes out of Canada and NW USA. First job every morning till we got to Panama canal was tightening the chain lashings, usually with a stanchion. Also last job of day and never had any problem.
    On Pacific Reliance,went round the Azores twice when hove too so as not to hazard cargo.
    Worst I ever saw was at end of my first trip when berthing in Surrey Docks. A "Margarita Chandros" was discharging and listing with every lift. Had cargo stowed on boat deck and monkey island. She had apparently arrived off the Thames with heavy list and we were told pilots told to name there charge for taking up river. To get into lock, had 2 head line ashore and used to get ship upright and into lock. used breast lines to keep upright in lock and until clear.

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    Default Re: Timber carrier listing

    The big problem with timber deck cargoes are the absorbtion of water due to weather and sea , causing an increase in weight. And a raising of the ships centre of gravity making the ship more tender and closer to a negative GM , where you can be in a position where you reach the angle of loll . When in an emergency the only answer is to jettison part of the deck cargo to get back into the area of positive stability. JS
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    Default Re: Timber carrier listing

    I am sure Dennis can verify this but while sawn timber is on the quay in Prince Rupert it is kept wet all the time, either by the more or less constant rain fall (it rains 300 days a year up there) or failing that the timber is then being kept wet by spraying .
    When the cargo is loaded it is already wet so at it's heaviest. The GM was just about positive? she was tender but as we travelled south the deck cargo was drying out so improving stability. As Colin said lashing chains checked and adjusted as required. I seem to remember there was an arrangement that in an emergency the deck cargo lashing chains could be released quickly.

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    Wink Re: Timber carrier listing

    Quote Originally Posted by j.sabourn View Post
    The big problem with timber deck cargoes are the absorbtion of water due to weather and sea , causing an increase in weight. And a raising of the ships centre of gravity making the ship more tender and closer to a negative GM , where you can be in a position where you reach the angle of loll . When in an emergency the only answer is to jettison part of the deck cargo to get back into the area of positive stability. JS

    Ah John the Angle of Loll (not Lol for any textspeaking young'uns reading in!)-or the Angle of Resting Membership,though to be fair at our age it's more like the Angle of Dangle... and the problem of Water Absorption can be mitigated ,to some degree,by use of a Rubber Sheet.




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    Default Re: Timber carrier listing

    That could be a quiz question Graham ... When does the angle of Dangle equal the heat of the Beat... Trouble is I dont know the answer.. JS
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    Default Re: Timber carrier listing

    All the timber we loaded in B.C on the forest product vessels in C.P. were stowed in the open. We would load pulp, paper, Kraft liner board, plywood from warehouse storage into the cargo holds using the 3 on board Munck gantry cranes, these were fitted with perspex roofs over the main body and canvas roll down curtains on the fore and aft legs of the gantry which in theory gave a tent over the open hatch. The hatch covers were 3 slab covers port and STB either side of the centre line deck longitudinal girder. Unlike MacGregor covers that run on a continuous track, these slabs sat in recessed sections of the track when in the closed position and to open the hatch you had to manually jack up the recessed sections of track to form a continuous trackway. The slabs were then lifted, using the gantry crane and stacked on top of each other. Continuous chains running round sprockets at each end of the hatch with one end being attached to an electric motor meant that the stack of slabs could be moved to any position over the open hatch, alternatively, if the adjacent hatch was not being worked then these slabs could be stowed atop of that hatch cover.
    Deck cargo, usually hemlock, was always loaded from open storage in port Alberni only where stevedores put all the lashing chains on. One from port and one from STB meeting in the middle and joined by a bottle screw fitted with a senhouse slip that meant in an emergency the lashings could be released by knocking open the senhouse slip ( volunteers required!!!!). The deck lashings were spaced 1 metre apart and the stevedores had an adapted chain saw to tighten up the bottle screw. The last job was for the stevedores to build a catwalk atop the deck cargo for the crew to access these bottle screws in order to take up any slack that may have worked in the lashings during the voyage. This was the first and last job of the day and was usually given to the deck cadets and we would go out with a length of pipe and twice daily check that the hundred or so bottle screws were as tight as possible.
    Think in the gallery there is a photo of the N.R. Crump , wonderful name eh!, Going through the Panama canal fully loaded with a timber deck cargo. We never once lost any deck cargo despite on at least one occasion having been Hove too for 3 days after being caught in the tail end of a hurricane after clearing the Carribbean on the way to Europe.
    Rgds
    J.A.
    Last edited by John Arton; 10th June 2021 at 12:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Timber carrier listing

    John, were they the same as the Gear Bulk ships Buries Markes were running up to Prince Rupert and other West Coast ports. See attached photo. I was on the FP Clipper. I took her away from Mitsui Chiba yard. She was managed by East Asiatic Copenhagen (EAC). Best paying company I ever worked for. They cocked up on the contract and I took full advantage of the cockup. We went on over time after 40 hour week. I stayed on her for 14 months and worked all hours I could made enough to more or less pay my mortgage off.

    gearbulk.jpg

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