Union fees

[Roger Millard]

#33... coming from the neck of the woods that you do Roger you will probably know Mickey Slack an old Wimpey man, then ? Maybe you also know Mickey Reed though he wasn’t with Wimpeys he came from Lowestoft .The last time I saw him he was standing on the quay seeing to one of these stand by /fishing vessels as he was the supt. For same and hadn’t been ashore very long. JS.

The dates and names that come to mind JS started in the OS industry Nov 66 left Oct 68 our home port was Gt. Yarmouth. Claim to fame was guarding the gas leak from Sea Quest rig, warning trawlers and other vessels away from the area so they didn't sink which some found laughable then carried on supplying here at Bridlington where she went for shelter then to rotterdam for repairs. The names you mention i dont recall however one famous one was Cap, Brownrigg & Peter Staunton. Keep safe Cap. R.

[Tony Taylor]

#31... can you remember the name of ship Tony.? Nomis the managers of the Silver Pit were owned by a Norwegian Company. As have said before the company name was Simon backwards . Maybe some family Christian name ? I used to think of Simple Simon. Thinking back they already had 1 purpose built ship then working in the British Sector. Maybe that was a second one , or maybe still the first. Cheers JS

cant recall, I was shown a picture and a layout of the whole ship, it had facilities for about 270 casualties or thereabouts

[j.sabourn]

#25. Like most certificated officers Ivan you have the same thoughts as most of us. I negotiated my own wage on foreign vessels , however I had something they had to have. Coming back into British Shipping on federated Shipping it was the maritime year book. But ieven there, there was a chink in the armour which I had no hesitation in using and that was the seniority rates , although not large I insisted on , that was the deep sea ships , offshore was different as I was a newcomer to that. The seniority rates were I think supposedly there for long service with one company , as far as I was concerned by that time they were all jumping the fence. We really didn’t need a union, but there were many seamen who had nothing to sell , so a union to speak for them was an advantage. Cheers JS.

[Louis the fly]

In an ideal world there would not be a need for unions. Unfortunately the world is far from ideal and exploitation of workers is commonplace in all sectors. Examples of this is the so called gig economy where the workforce is required to be self employed absolving the company from paying sick pay, holiday pay and hourly rates. Uber taxi drivers have recently won a high court judgment on this issue with the help of a union and solicitors working for free forcing Uber to stop this practice. Zero hour contracts, workers not knowing how much or how little they will be paid at the end of the week or month. How can a person pay rent, food bills and all other expenses if they do not know how much they will earn? Agency work, some workers work for a company for years but are never employed by the company, the agency is their employer, if they are not needed some days they are sent home and can be sacked at a moments notice.
This is why unions are essential, none of us would agree to work under these conditions and we should not expect the present generation to do so.

Going back to an earlier post on seamen's pay on supply ships I was working 1 month on 1 month off on full pay for the month off. This is why I say I was earning more than the average shore worker.

[Keith Tindell]

Just a query Louis, when you worked the month on, what hours did you work, and was it 7 days a week ?, never worked those myself, but just of interest, also if you worked more than the normal 8 hours, was overtime paid, kt

[Ivan Cloherty]

#25. We really didn’t need a union, but there were many seamen who had nothing to sell , so a union to speak for them was an advantage. Cheers JS.

I have found through life there are doers and there victims, some like being victims. Someone once told me on here it was alright for me because I had the advantage of a University education, must be two of us, as the only university I attended was the university of life, the educational university passed me by, something for which I shall be eternally grateful having seen some of the results of late. Education passed me by with the help of Hitler's mates bombing me out three times and sometimes no school to go to, the school I eventually went to after the war was miles away and it was a walking job both ways. I went on trawlers at 13 to get money to aid my family as dad was in hospital, the same at 14 and 15. I was told I would never get a job as a cadet in a certain company, at 15 I got on a train in Hull (not so easy in those days) went to Liverpool without an appointment, I was told no one would see me, so I just sat there until someone did, I saw two Supts, they gave me a job (to start when I was 16) and my train fare home and something extra for food. That has been my mantra throughout life, if someone tells you that you cannot do it, prove them wrong. I was made redundant at 48, started my own company and told by my previous employers that I wouldn't last a year, my first big job was in competition with them, I got it, because the people realised that I had been the catalyst in that field in that company and not the MD. The 12 months turned into 27 years until I retired, I was never a millionaire, but didn't do too bad for a boy from a Council Estate with no formal education, but never once did I consider myself a victim. Some said I was lucky, but I did find that the harder I worked the luckier I got!

[Louis the fly]

Hi Keith the pay was a consolidated rate with overtime built in. On supply ships the hours of worked varied because the ships were on the call of the rigs you were supplying, anchor handling or towing. All of the ships I sailed in gave you as much free time in port as possible, it was a very free and easy atmosphere on these ships everybody working together at sea and drinking together in port.

[j.sabourn]

I have no idea what Louis”s reply will be Keith but officially was 12 hour day 7 days a week. But I know from practical in the job and unofficially one did not work for the sake of following the rules , you took rest. When you could . offshore shifts were usually 12 hours in any case. I was informed by 1, I.O.M. Snatching at a rig he expected me to work 18 hours without a break , it turned into 26 hours. To suit his convenience . Officially it was an 84 hours week and there was no overtime for going over. Wages were consolidated. One excuse for working hard and playing hard , until the play bit was clamped down on. JS

[Lewis McColl]

Another con job British ship owners pulled was Flagging and going off shore and the threat to sack all British seafarers. They black mailed the Government of the day by saying if the Inland revenue would change the income tax laws so seafarers could avoid paying income tax 1/6th rule it would help to make British seafarers still economical to employ. Then they stopped paying employers NIC's another and left it to the seafarer to sort his own NIC's contributions out. This actually worked to the seafarers advantage as a class 2 NIC stamp was saving the seafarer money. Then the ship owner started to get rid of ratings and PO's. Then they started chipping away at junior officer ranks. BP suddenly had a large building programme so they needed UK/EU officers and put together a decent wage and contract package, employing all officer ranks and training Cadets. Even then they had two types of contracts A Polish contract & a Brit contract. Then they get an offer of Tonnage tax? if they put the ships back under British flag/IOM flag. Bang straight away we were employed from Singapore and classified as contractors. For me this meant a £5000 pay cut as I now had to pay Class 1 NIC's, BP did not as they said there Fleet personal office was based in Singapore. Another stroke they pulled was to split the fleet 50/50 and employ Indians. After several embarrassing oil spills and a new broom at BP shipping they decided sell most of the fleet sack all the crews and charter ships from Maresk line. Glad I am well retired now.

[Keith Tindell]

John and Louis, as i said i never worked in that field at all, but if it was 12 hrs per day 7 days per week, month on month off, you had in fact worked an average of 42 hrs for the whole 2 month period, but as i say, if you were happy with the system, thats all that counts, kt