Union fees

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Originally Posted by Louis the fly

#9 A factual account of recent Merchant Navy history is not whinging it is as stated; fact.
As you were only at sea for a few years and not present when these events occurred your comments are not valid.
Shipping companies did not cease to operate at this time, trading continued until the advent of containeration which brought an end to the British fleets.

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Well louis that comment is a change from ....THE GREEDY SHIPOWNERS ......makiing a fortune ......i believe the number of seamen on this site who spent more than 8 or 10 years at sea would be very small as the turnover for ratings was quite large ....and most ratings ...not officers would find living on a ratings wage with a wife and children gave them a poor standard of living .....as for the comment on whinging ....never whinged in my life if i didnt like the deal i just walked .....and thank the lord i did ......respectfully cappy

#20. I must have slung my hook at the right time here then John 1991 to 2002. I know by the few contacts I have that flings ain’t what they used yer be. So am pleased I am retired to that extent. You will find here in Australia the same as other western countries they listen to media reports and take all as gospel. All the foreign labour in the world may be good for the businesses but it is certainly not good for the country. Most of it that cash flow goes out of the country mostly on a tax free basis , and while it might keep the wheels of industry moving it does so with a big cost to the working population. There has yet to be someone who can find a happy medium. At present the government is crying because they can’t find labour to pull the apples off the trees , if they paid the correct wages for the job and most of the work force for such could learn to forget how they were previously showered from a great height things may be different. There is always two sides to a discussion. He who has newsprint behind him has an advantage to start with. Cheers JS

As a British seaman I had a very good standard of living, single and married. I was earning more than the average shore worker and for most of my time at sea I was being paid to do what I enjoyed doing. I learned new skills on supply ships in the North Sea and on deep sea tugs. I could take a watch, put a position on a chart and chart a course, also navigate using the old Decca navigation system. I could put a vessel alongside the quay or another ship.
Money has never been a motivation, if bills were paid and there was enough left to enjoy life that was ok for me.

On the subject of greedy shipowners, when the Titanic sank White Star line sent letters to the relatives of dead seamen demanding money owed by their husbands or sons.

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Originally Posted by Louis the fly

As a British seaman I had a very good standard of living, single and married. I was earning more than the average shore worker and for most of my time at sea I was being paid to do what I enjoyed doing. I learned new skills on supply ships in the North Sea and on deep sea tugs. I could take a watch, put a position on a chart and chart a course, also navigate using the old Decca navigation system. I could put a vessel alongside the quay or another ship.
Money has never been a motivation, if bills were paid and there was enough left to enjoy life that was ok for me.

On the subject of greedy shipowners, when the Titanic sank White Star line sent letters to the relatives of dead seamen demanding money owed by their husbands or sons.

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LOUIS you are so misleading in your quest to belittle shipowners .....if you didnt like it you should have got out like thousands upon thousands did many on this site alone ......as for earning more than a shore wallah ......a master on this site revealed what his earnings in the north sea were ......i had girls on sewing machines on a 35 hour week earning more with overtime ...that was a master so you earned more than him ....if you wanted to stay at sea with the owners robbing you the unions robbing you in those conditions ,,,,well it speaks for itself......i doubt if more than a handfull of men spent there whole or major part of there life on a ratings wage at sea .....on this site alone there wouldnt be more than a half dozen....smell the roses louis ......dont kid yourself ......as for myself 28 quid a month in1960 a ratings wage .....ie 7 quid a week one pound aday wouldnt bleedin feed me never mind a family ... so as stated my family came ist by 62 i was out ....for a single man a great job ......for a married man donkey work....with no hard feelings louis that is my view

Throughout life both at sea and ashore I've always known my wages/salary before signing the dotted line, if you didn't like it, don't sign, yes I know there were industry standards, but also knew that as well. Service on board differed but you cannot realistically expect to go through life sailing on only good ships or companies, It's only by experiencing the bad you learn to appreciate the good. I left one job after nine years because I was told by the owner to teach 'X' about my job and he had more qualifications so would then become my boss, so I told them if he's so bloody clever, then there is nothing I can teach him, bye bye. Wish he'd come on the scene earlier, I went from that job to another the next day on twice the money.

Cappy you speak a lot but do not listen, read my post again then reply.
I will let JWS explain to you the difference in stand by boats and supply ships as you obviously do not know.

Wealthy ship owners, when I was with Bibby line I met Sir Derek Bibby a few times. I was home on leave and I got a call from the office from a friend who was an engineering super with the company. I was to get myself down to Willaston as the central heating system had packed up in Sir Derek's house , as you live local it will give you a chance to see how your boss lives. Duly did as I was told , this heating system was older than some of the Bibby ships.
He was a funny old guy and after I got it sorted he took me a walk around his gardens. He picked a load of fruit and tomatoes gave them to me and asked me were I lived. As I got into my car he asked me if I could drop him off at the village post office. In the car he past a comment along the lines of , nothing like the smell of a new car, what make is it? I was a brand new C class Merc. He looked at me and said with a straight face I must be paying my 3 engineers to much if they can afford a new Mercedes. Still there was an extra £100 in bank by the end of the month.

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Originally Posted by Louis the fly

Cappy you speak a lot but do not listen, read my post again then reply.
I will let JWS explain to you the difference in stand by boats and supply ships as you obviously do not know.

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louis you cannot listen you have gone on and one about cuba .....russia...unions the shipowners my statement is clear ....i could not bring up a family on a ratings wages in 1960 which was the supposed last golden days of the MN.....you found you could do that ...good for you.... my statement i could not live on one pound a day in 1962 never mind bring up a family was my reply to that .....officers a different case .....perhaps we should beg to differ louis.....and leave it at that ......you are happy with your lot and i the same .....finished on this now ...be lucky keep safe

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Originally Posted by Louis the fly

Cappy you speak a lot but do not listen, read my post again then reply.
I will let JWS explain to you the difference in stand by boats and supply ships as you obviously do not know.

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In the early days of North sea supply vessels we would discharge our cargo then have to wait at anchor or heave too until our running partner arrived with their cargo, sometimes it would be a week however the fishing was good. This changed when companies hired vessels past their sell by dates to takeover standby duties which gave us more time in port. I would guess unions would have been involved in these negotiations, however i don't remember the standby ships, (being that dreaded word for some) unionised. I believe that unions in their infancy were an asset for workers especially when children were cleaning chimneys, Most good intentions end up being organised by the inexperienced. Regards R.

I think Louis is trying to point out what most do not realize the difference in vessels off shore in the UK which I suppose and hope by now they have smartened up the poor side of going to sea. Most British shipowners In the supply and towing side were federated we’re reasonably well paid had a union if they wanted and were reasonably happy in their life. On the other side of the platter you had the stand by safety boats which had to be there by legislation and lip service was paid to them. The owners of such vessels hired them out to the oil company’s who took them on the lowest charter rates possible sight unseen , just to fit the legalities ofthe industry. The biggest apparent worry about getting a cert.for these vessels should have been the last one ,anyhow it appeared to anyone who sailedon these ships as long as they had seating arrangements for the number of survivors , towel, and blankets they were ok , plus of course the FRC which was the important one. Nothing about the amount of freshwater bathrooms toilets etc required for 200/300 men. There were all sorts of discrepancy’s apart from this too deep to put on here. They were vessels that no one wanted either by the oil companies who were always trying to get the legislation changed to the people who sailed on such and was the only job they could get. They were non union could and did pay what they wanted so the wages had wide fluctuations . If you read the small print in the regulations you would see they were broke regularly but were never checked , one was I believe to be part of a FRC you had to be under either 30 or 40 years of age, most I say were usually in their 50s .All very well if fit.Most of the ships themselves left a lot to be desired . As master on a supply boat I had been on 18000 pounds a year
and 1 on and 1 off. On a stand by boat I was on 9000 pounds a year and a week off a month take it or leave it. So imagine what others were getting.There has always been a cloud thrown over these ships as the conditions in most cases were shameful and the likes of explaining who know about it, would not be wanting it to be brought into discussing it by some. Yorkshire tv years ago wanted me to appear on a program and I said no. The next time they spoke to me they said the program had been cancelled ,and I have a good idea why .Louis was sitting ok on his regular anchor handler or whatever it was, but he knows the conditions of other tonnage out there ,and doubt he would have joined such if he had any sense . Cheers JS