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Thread: Examination. Masters and Mates

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    I went to sea in 1969 as a Junior Engineer, I worked hard studying lots of maths for my Chief Engineers Licence. I was deep sea for many years and the only time I used maths was in working out the slip on a propeller, thankfully Variable Pitch Propeller's arrived and this ended. I then went offshore and eventually became an oil rig surveyor, then as a trainer for rig crews, and in all that time I did not have to use Mathematics.
    I must admit I enjoyed learning Maths but found it a bit of a waste of time on the job.

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  3. #32
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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    Speaking as an ex CDI Ship Inspector of Chemical & Gas Tankers, ships are still required to have two separate means of position fixing. On Ocean Passage, this means GPS plus one other means, which essentially is Celestial Navigation. Two separate GPS does not satisfy this requirement.

    As an Inspector, we required to see adequate proof of use of this second means, which is often demonstrated by the production of a 'sight-book'.
    I did quite often ask for the attending Bridge Officer to show me how he removed the Sextant from its box. That often caused some confusion, which only served to indicate a certain lack of practice.

    To answer the question, in terms of Navigational Equipment redundancy, the DF disappeared some years ago and it is no longer required to carry a chronometer - as the GPS will do.
    Now, we are seeing a proposal by the MNTB, in their efforts to oust outdated subjects from the STCW syllabus in order to build future competence (for example union purchase derricks & communication by Morse Code are proposed for removal), however this proposal includes the removal of Celestial Navigation from the syllabus.

    However, it is interesting to note that in 2016 the US Navy re-introduced the teaching of Celestial Navigation to their Midshipmen, almost 20 years after that subject had been erased from their syllabus.
    Perhaps they know something that we don't.

    Captain Patrick Barker
    Marine Consultant, ex CDI Ship Inspector

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  5. #33
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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    I recently visited the bridge of one of the Stena boats plying all the way from Cairnryan to Belfast and was surprised to see a pristine copy of the Nautical Almanac on the table, presumably a formal requirement?

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Tindell View Post
    On the question of lifts on cruise ships, if the order is given to abandon, presumably the same as ashore, the advice is do not use the lifts, in addition to power failure the ship may have a list, i think the Costa Concordia developed a list LOL. The thought of all of the elderly and infirm having to use stairs would be interesting. I recently stayed at a hotel in Wales, and was on the 3rd floor, only 1 lift, and that had a max of 3 persons, my wife decided to attempt the stairs as she has two dicky knees, she was in agony by the time she reached the ground floor, the thought of the rest of the 3rd floor piling behind us would have been dodgy to say the least.
    In my job as a fire officer and the loss of power in the city, we would be inundated with emergency calls from people stuck in lifts, very little we could do, send crews out and up to the motor room and wind each lift up to the next floor to release them, but when there were literally dozens of calls, we rarely got round them all, before power was restored, but even so , some folks were in a very nervous state when released, kt


    Unlike shore side elevators those on ships do not have any notice warning of not to use in the event of fire.
    At boat drill I have never heard any mention of elevator use.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

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  8. #35
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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Barker View Post
    However, it is interesting to note that in 2016 the US Navy re-introduced the teaching of Celestial Navigation to their Midshipmen, almost 20 years after that subject had been erased from their syllabus.
    Perhaps they know something that we don't.

    Captain Patrick Barker
    Marine Consultant, ex CDI Ship Inspector
    All stemmed from a number of collisions involving Arleigh/Burke Class destroyers, where-in everything is duplicated on port and starboard side of the vessel, everything that is except the electronic navigation systems and the board of inquiry ascertained that no one on board had celestial navigation skills when their navigation systems were wiped out in the collisions and had there been no other USA vessels in the vicinity they would not have known their positions, it it is only when they switched their AIS systems back on their compatriots were able to locate them. Apparently they switch off their location systems when traversing Far Eastern waters, apparently they have been instructed not to do so again by the board of inquiry as they stated the obvious, do the commanders actually think that interested parties (China/Russia, my words) do not know where they are at any given time

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    On the Holland America ships. all registered in Rotterdam, under the Dutch Flag, at Boat and Fire Drills, the crew members are stationed on every staircase to assist the infirm and at every lift entrance to prevent anyone using them. HAL is under European Laws, same as British ships.

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    Pete,
    Your post has reminded me of an occasion more than 20 years ago when after leaving the navy 10 years previously to retrain as a surveyor.
    I was working as a property manager for forte hotels and had to visit a hotel in Southampton (The Polygon now sadly long gone).
    An old friend and shipmate from welsh overseas freighters called Ken Evans was working as a third engineer on the banana boats and asked me down for quiet drink on the ship after I had finished work for the day.
    As I had been a decky during my time in the merchant navy the mate who was of the my vintage gave me a tour of the bridge - I was amazed that there was now no radio officer, that the captain spoke daily to head office (weekly at best when I was at sea) and that the only bit of kit on the bridge that I was really familiar with was the Decca navigator.
    I realised then that the skills that I had worked so hard to obtain as a young cadet and officer were now redundant.
    The truth is that in the present world they don't need them.
    The drink wasn't quiet at all and we had a great night but i knew then that I could never go back,
    Thank you for bringing back a memory that had been forgotten.

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    On the question of American navigation. True or not I cannot say. But back in the early 50s and American Victory ship was heading for the Thames, being a bit lost she called up a Dutch coaster and asked where she was headed, the reply London, the Yank said good we will follow you, she consequently ran aground not knowing the Dutch coaster had a flat bottom .
    Cheers Des

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    I was 3rd Mate with Esso Petroleum during the early 60s , my first ship being Esso Chelsea ( one of the 4 ex Lake Maracaibo shallow draft coastal tankers). During my 6 months on her we rarely broke from the regular Fawley / Thames power station run but did once venture up the North Sea route to Jarrow.
    She was equipped with the Decca Navigator system but I do recall that within certain areas of the North Sea, the system was inaccurate owing to shore transmitting stations being obliquely opposed .

    That was one problem. Another was that these small ships had a top speed of about 8 knots or less and with tidal streams running out of The Wash between 4 and 5 Knots it was a great experience for a first trip 3rd Mate to witness the corrections for extreme leeway and to be involved with some serious navigation by coastal chartwork under the watchful eye of the Chelsea's master.

    There is an excellent book by Horatio Clare , a free lance feature reporter who got permission from the Maersk company to sail on two of their ships as an independent observer of the day to day life of the ship and its crew. The first was Gerd Maersk , the second Maersk Pembroke. He covers everything from cargo and loading, ships business, navigation, meteorology , Engines etc etc. And crewing and personalities

    Pete

    Pete

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Graham View Post
    That was one problem. Another was that these small ships had a top speed of about 8 knots or less and with tidal streams running out of The Wash between 4 and 5 Knots it was a great experience for a first trip 3rd Mate to witness the corrections for extreme leeway and to be involved with some serious navigation by coastal chartwork under the watchful eye of the Chelsea's master.

    Pete
    When serving on rock-dodgers it was quite often we sailed 4 points off the course line to maintain the required course. Made navigation interesting, especially if you were the give way vessel and trying to get back on your course again in restricted waters and still make the tide at the next port before it either dried out or you missed the last lock gate closure

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