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Thread: Examination. Masters and Mates

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    The US Naval Academy, Annapolis, has reintroduced celestial navigation and the use of sextants to the cadets. They understand that modern electronic navigation sytsems can fail or be hacked. Also in my old company, Chevron, the use of sextants is still required to be used and taught to all deck officers and cadets.

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    Would all this electronic wizardry still not be considered an aid to navigation ONLY???

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    In preparation for a solar flare, each Summer I still fix the house by putting out a tray of water for an artificial horizon and crank up my Husun Three Circles ham bone. No need to run up the first sight !
    I find that consistently the house by the Sun is about 2 miles SE of the GPS position....No problem given that on the North Atlantic you could run for a day or two with only a quick sight of the Sun !

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    When plotting a GPS position on a paper chart you should check that the chart is to WGS84 standard, if not then the GPS position could be out for up to a mile or more.
    Rgds
    J.A.

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    Delving down into old (but reasonably recent) exam papers, they are still setting questions which involve sextant readings. And great and composite great-circle calculations. So the answer is almost certainly, and logically, that the sextant is still extant... In any event I wouldn't set off deep-sea (or foreign-going) without one, and an up-to-date almanac and all the tables and/or calculator - plus the best time keeper I could get my hands on...
    Mike J.
    R 732092

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    I'm fairly sure in the UK and Australian system they still teach celestial navigation and I presume it is taught to some extent in Asia.

    Without GPS ships will probably be able to dead reckon and use radar navigation to get into a safe anchorage or a port, if they have someone with half a brain onboard that is. However, I suspect loss if we lose GPS and especially if it is a widespread satellite issue affecting communication satellites as well, then ships will be the least of everyones concern. Aviation is also heavily reliant on GPS, as are many other industries. Marine colleges would probably run intensive courses for celestial navigation and advanced navigation (someone with half decent maths could be taught in a few weeks and frankly for the calculations you can create a pro forma or software), companies then could employ a dedicated navigator. But even so, winter in the North Atlantic and Europe, you could go weeks without a break in the clouds.

    The skills of seafarers are changing and it is inevitable that we will see remote navigation or unmanned bridges in the not so distant future. As a Marine Pilot I am surprised on a daily basis with the poor skills of many of the navigators and Captains.

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    Ian #22
    If you look at the IMO regs for the mandatory fitting of ECDIS (electronic chart display information systems) as an alternative to the SOLAS requirements for the carriage of paper charts required for the intended voyage, these need GPS to work so they are no longer classed as an aid to navigation.
    Rgds
    J.A.
    MSC.1-Circ.1503-Rev.1 - Ecdis - Guidance For Good Practice (Secretariat) (1).pdf

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    Quote Originally Posted by John Arton View Post
    Ian #22
    If you look at the IMO regs for the mandatory fitting of ECDIS (electronic chart display information systems) as an alternative to the SOLAS requirements for the carriage of paper charts required for the intended voyage, these need GPS to work so they are no longer classed as an aid to navigation.
    Rgds
    J.A.
    MSC.1-Circ.1503-Rev.1 - Ecdis - Guidance For Good Practice (Secretariat) (1).pdf
    Some ECDIS also accept an LOP so that you can plot celestial or visual position lines.

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    I still have my sextant, Norries tables and notes just in case! . I just cannot imagine being on a ship that is dependant upon a system that can fail at any second or be hacked by some terrorist fanatic. At least you could depend on celestial navigation 100% or cocked hat bearings from landmarks if you're near any land. I'm assuming there are no compasses for bearings on bridge wings anymore? Thank goodness I did my time at sea when I did. Another thing, if one was flying out to join a ship I would always carry my sextant with me, it was surprisingly easy to spot other Mates at the airport as we would be carrying our sextant boxes. I recall once being checked upon departure, the 'officer' opened my box after a struggle, took one look at the sextant and slammed the lid down. I asked if he would now be prepared to pay for a new calibration certificate!

    On the subject of cruises, there is no way I could spend time at sea without a job to do as I would be bored to tears. Also I certainly wouldn't pay money to be on a ship, that's not what I'm accustomed to! Years of lonely watches on the bridge can make one a bit anti social but I'm not complaining.

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    Default Re: Examination. Masters and Mates

    On the question of lifts on cruise ships, if the order is given to abandon, presumably the same as ashore, the advice is do not use the lifts, in addition to power failure the ship may have a list, i think the Costa Concordia developed a list LOL. The thought of all of the elderly and infirm having to use stairs would be interesting. I recently stayed at a hotel in Wales, and was on the 3rd floor, only 1 lift, and that had a max of 3 persons, my wife decided to attempt the stairs as she has two dicky knees, she was in agony by the time she reached the ground floor, the thought of the rest of the 3rd floor piling behind us would have been dodgy to say the least.
    In my job as a fire officer and the loss of power in the city, we would be inundated with emergency calls from people stuck in lifts, very little we could do, send crews out and up to the motor room and wind each lift up to the next floor to release them, but when there were literally dozens of calls, we rarely got round them all, before power was restored, but even so , some folks were in a very nervous state when released, kt
    R689823

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