Ratings

[Trevor Bodiam]

Just been sitting and reminiscing looking through my discharge book and i'm really curious about how the terms for Ratings came about?
Why were we assistant stewards and not stewards. There was a Chief Steward and a 2nd Steward, so a title of steward would not be confused with them.
Why add the word assistant?
Also why was an A.B. an able bodied seaman, - where did it start from? Why the term able bodied?
And E.D.H. as efficient deck hand, and not deck hand?
S.O.S. and J.O.S. were used but could you be an Ordinary Seaman, just plain O.S. I can't remember sailing with any, but could be wrong.
And who came up with D.R. for decline to report instead of just plain bad or very bad ?
Whilst these night seem trivial questions i am genuinely puzzled as to the origins of these terms we always took for granted.

[Keith at Tregenna]

Interesting, hopefully someone will tell more.

Regards,

Keith.

[Doc Vernon]

As we were actually helping the First and Second Stewards in their capacities we were called their assistants thus Asst Stewards,
Cheers

[Des Taff Jenkins]

HI Trevor.
I can't help with the steward thing. But EDH was an examination to make sure that the seaman was proficient in what he had to do on a ship, it was also a prelude to becoming an AB. The Jos and Sos where a seniority thing plus a difference in wages. they were on all cargo and tankers that I was on. The Able Seaman speaks for itself able to preform all seamanship, from steering, rigging, rope work, sails, and of course following orders from the Bosun.
Cheers Des
PS The DR came about if you were a naughty boy.

[j.sabourn]

One of the other reasons for titles of hierarchy was because of the wages structure for federated ships. Every rating depending on his position was on a different wage. As regards DR you could if you wanted decline to have put in your book, and have ENR instead, meaning endorsement not required. You could sign on as steward in fact the master could sign you on as anything if you were willing to accept the wages associated with what he thought was a reasonable wage for that unknown position. Also the manning of British ships had a designated number of mates engineers ABs ordinary seamen stewards etc.etc. Today is not so. Nearly everyone is an integrated rating or general service, who is supposed to work anywhere on the ship. Try telling that to the marines. I used to try and leave it up to themselves to choose where they were most comfortable at, sometimes it worked , sometimes it didn’t. JS

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi John.
I can see your point at letting them do what they are comfortable with, but what if some rigging carried away and none of them were competent to fix it, you would be up the mast again, I can imagine you yelling from the top mast, general service my ****.
Cheers Des

[j.sabourn]

Des I doubt today with the skeleton crew you have on most ships there would be anyone who knew about rigging in any case. Ships today are built supposedly to be foolproof . However there is no such word when it comes to shipping. No wire splicing for starters, and the list goes on. The first cry that came out when demanning started was ship maintainance. No problems said the ship owner it will all get done by shore labour. This may be the case with some outfits but not the ones I sailed with. Watchkeeping was another, how can a watchkeeper get 8. Consecutive hours off when there are 24 hours in a day and only two of you there. And watchkeeping is only a small part of the job when it comes to the working of a ship. 12 x 7 is the normal hours on board and more if necessary. And. Still they complain about the wages bill.they talk about safety as though it was the begin and end all of the industry. They are the ones who pay lip service to it ,no one else. The old idea of a career at sea is null and void to anyone expecting a job like we had. It is today an unthinking mans job where other people who are not seamen make the decisions for you, this may be ok for those who don’t know any better, but is certainly not a life I would spend doing today. JS....

[happy daze john in oz]

Have little knowledge of deck but catering yes.
It also varied from ship to ship, the bigger ones such as liners would have a chief steward and second but on a smaller ship maybe cargo on chief.
But then there were not just the assistant stewards there were such as pantry man and second along with assistants All reported to the second steward, then the galley with chef, sou chef and corner chefs all with assistant cooks.
The galley, depending on ships size, would have a number of different corners, roast and soup, fish, veg, cold larder.
All had a chef in charge with assistant cooks under him, same in the bakery with chief baker, head pastry cook and assistants.
Bar crew and such all had their own head of department, it can get to 'too many chiefs and not enough Indians'
Bed room and bath room stewards along with bell boys, or waiters assistants as some ships named them.
But all this lot came under the second steward, then there was the pursers division not forgetting the head waiters and seconds there as well.
With so many reporting to the second steward one could well as what was there a chief for?

Engineering was similar with chief, senior second, junior second.
Then down to the third and even fourth level.
Sparkies and radio had their own chief but not sure who they reported to.

It took a lot of crew on some ships.

But now I doubt if very many of the above would still exist, chef replaced by microwave is one example of how it has all changed.

[cappy]

##interesting to read about manning levels and various ratings .....but not only shipowners turning a blind eye but also ships masters .....as a 18 year old on a small coatal tanker coastal tanker i joined as cabin boy .....but my duty was to mainly help the cook plus tidy the old man the chief engineer and the mates cabin...and look after the saloon if it could be called that as most came for there food and ate it in there own cabin ..the cook was a drunk and hygiene was not in his book to say the least ...we were on weekly terms ie we all put so much in and the cook went shopping at the local bakers greengrocers and butchers ....no supermarkets then ....but on his shopping venture would disappear into th local bars and a fair percentage of the money would go very quickly on a few pints and whiskey chasers......any way he goes adrift in shields and we are heading to aberdeen to bunker a whaling vessel .....the old man ses run ashore get some meat veg and what you think ....you can do his job ..i will pay you his wage .......i was a cocky young bugger and it was in my mind i could do the job ..... burgoo bacon egg breakfast mince tatties cabbage lunch ....and fish and tatties fordinner ...i think we had about 9 or 10 hands ....jeez every body was in the galley trying to help......came back down to shields ...asked for the cooks job .....old man oh we cant do that its not legal .....as we were paid weekly i got my wage ..nothing extra ....went to see the old man ......he said its all good experience ...........next time i joined a hains boat the 2nd cook got burned as we went round the lizard friday fish and chips we were light ship and she started bouncing.....the fat shot out the top of the big chip pan on the coal burning galley top and set alight the second cook ran and lifted it off the range and at that moment she took a hard roll which made him run backwards till he hit th bulkhead whereby the hot fat flew over him from face all dow his front ....i t was not a pretty sight .....we came about and put him ashore in falmouth....sadly the smell from him barely alive and his screams were not i nice thing to hear .....we sailed from falmouth with no second cook and baker ...iwas shown how to knock up a batch .....the chief steward was to spend some time in the galley and the three off us were to share the short hand money .....the only problem was the other two shared my share ....and i got nothing extra ....for performing the second cook and bakers job ....the chief steward came in the galley about four times in cooks whites and checks stood around told me what a lucky bstard iwas to get a second cooks job at 18 ......the third time i was ripped off was on joining one of runcimans the avonmoor in wallaroo ......about 8 hands had skinned out ......i had been adrift in oz after skinning out another vessel and that was another story .....any way the old man asked if i could steer i said yes as i grew up on a north sea collier from ten year old .....he said i will put you on as OS ...we were sailing that evening ....i was told i was on the 12 to 4 ....i was one happy bunny going home after10 months or so ......stood the twelve to four for some two or three months paid of in shields ..when i found out i was signed on as deck boy and paid accordingly.......but i surely learned one lesson where money is concerned trust no bstard .....30 pieces of silver comes to mind......but what a learning curve ....and how it all stood me in good stead when i started my own business ...oh happy days and wouldnt change it apart from the monies issues .....cappy from shields

[j.sabourn]

Is that why you insisted on interest on that 3/9d trying to recoup your losses.? How many farthings do you still have in that tin box on the mantelpiece. Or did you wrap them up in silver foil and try to pass them off as sixpences. You know Viscount Runciman built a church in Jesmond and was a leading light in the community. He just thought seamen were fair game. Cheers love to Pat. JS