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Thread: Query on Ranks

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Query on Ranks

    Hi John S.
    As you say a ships top man was the Master, I suppose a Master of his trade, I doubt seamen would have called him Master though, maybe Skipper or sometimes if warranted something starting with a B, Captain was easier on the tongue than Master and not so subservient to the seamen under him. Like Rod the only Captain proper I sailed with was on the Wave Baron, he was RNR, always the gentleman. But I always looked at the Captain on [most] ships I sailed on with respect, as they had earned it.
    Cheers Des

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  3. #12
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    Default Re: Query on Ranks

    Des most ships even had captain printed above his door. He was referred to as Captain to his face, behind his back would be old man, whatever his age. But officially his title used to be master. The same as a ships was a 3 or 4 masted vessel square rigged on all. Today the official title of ship in Webster’s dictionary is a vessel that floats in water or something similar. It was a complimentary title given and with usage has become the norm. You will. Find in ceremony’s of state and enquiries the old master reappears. Cheers JWS. PS any landlubber who asks me what I did for a living I say I was at sea or a seaman. When they question further what my actual duties were I say, I finished up as a Shipmaster, when they plead as to not knowing what that term means, and I say was responsible for the welfare of ship and people on it, they usually say Oh! you mean the Captain, when I repeat no the ships master, you should see the consternation on their faces. Usually one has to admit to the dubious celebrity title to save time and argument. The fact that most of the old shipmasters spent 30 years getting there is overlooked and having to compete with Errol Flynn and the corsairs and buccaneers of the West Indies Cheers once again. JS
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 6th March 2018 at 02:33 AM.

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    Default Re: Query on Ranks

    With titles as you rightly say they have to be something that is earned by respect , on a seasonal ferry service where you needed a lot more Crews to maintain a summer service then you did on the winter service we had a lot of first mates who would be a summer master . It always used to amuse me that one or two of that number would on their first promotion in the summer get there telephone book entry changed for the new edition of The Book with the pre nominal of Captain . it having a conversation with someone who was ex RFA I realised that there chief engineers are called Captain E and had scrambled egg on their cap because they didn't want to feel left out when they went to meetings of senior officers on other ships or assure as being the only people without scrambled egg .
    Rob Page R855150 - British & Commonwealth Shipping ( 1965 - 1973 ) Gulf Oil -( 1973 - 1975 ) Sealink ( 1975 - 1986 )

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    Default Re: Query on Ranks

    #15... Des ref, to the term skipper, was a proper certified title to a fisherman’s qualifications. A skipper ( full) entitled its owner to take a fishing vessel world wide. It was made to me many times that put fishing gear on the Queen Mary and they would take her to sea.. The old Home Trade cert. of master and of mate. Many went up for this after failing 2nd. Mate FG. The reason mainly because there was no maths paper, and no celestial navigation paper. And rather think there was no signals although could be wrong on that one. A good friend of mine and still is was master on the yellow perils, however when they started changing the cert. structure found he had to go back and start again from 2nd mate FG. He succeeded but shortly after retired in any case due mainly to the non existence of British Shipping. He came with me for a short time working offshore. Cheers JWS
    #18... They didn’t suffer from false modesty then Rob. I kept away from the masters chair for as long as I could, I saw no benefits apart from a few more quid , the incoming young spunk trumpets changed my mind and next time offered took. However what people don’t realise with the acceptance comes added responsibility’s and some hard decisions at times. No good taking a job and not living up to the expectations you profess to know. I was 12 years as mate and got caught a couple of times to replace the master due to sickness and a case in one incident of a personal attempted murder. However refused the offer of continuing in that position. I was too much like many on here wanted my cake and eat it, did not want to be a shipowners lackey to the core, and go where I wanted when I felt like it. Cheers JWS.
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 6th March 2018 at 04:09 AM.

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  9. #15
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    Default Re: Query on Ranks

    But the Captain, skipper, miserable barstweard, old man, humpty back jumped up never come down black enamel bugger,call him what you like is the man responsible for the ship. he is the CEO.

    But now, and this has been the case for many moons, it is the staff captain who is responsible for the day to day operation on board.
    Similar situation with engineers.
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 15th February 2022 at 01:55 AM.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

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    Default Re: Query on Ranks

    Could never get my head around what the staff captain did John. Did he keep a watch
    Was he a navigator ? Or was he like a glorified Bosun. The nearest I got to an easy life was on a 4 mate tanker. Which had a Chief officer responsible for loading and unloading and was on daywork between ports. Together with 3 mates to keep sea and cargo watches which were never broken. I joined Her in Bander Mashur was loaded with Naptha for Japan, I was promoted to chief officer from first mate in japan, and thought I was on my way to a cushy number. Only to find out the chief officer bit was to accompany the first mate bit and the chief officer disappeared like a puff of magic. To make matters worse the pumpman paid off sick also. This being my first experience of tankers I was very lucky to have a friendly and experienced people in the likes of the 3 mate and chief engineer who helped me no end. Had only a years experience on tankers and were not my favourite ships. Cheers JWS.

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    Default Re: Query on Ranks

    I personally consider he most prestigious Masters Certificate is Master Square Rigged. Still some sculling around.

    Did work with a certificated captain, he was an engineer surveyor with the then DOT in Adelaide and his Italian certificate showed him to be a Captain Engineer.

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    Default Re: Query on Ranks

    Colin I’ve just gone to the trouble of looking up my new British cert. issued on the 3 sept. 2001 by the maritime and coast guard agency, I didn’t take much notice of it 17 years ago as used my Australian cert. They have gone to the trouble of putting a little plan of the UK Europe including the meddy and North Africa in . Although I would hate to navigate on it.
    Also definitions of trading areas
    1. LEA. Limited European Area.
    2. EEA.. Extended European Area
    3. Near Continental.. within 150 miles from a safe haven in the UK and 30 miles from a safe haven in Eire.
    Functions and levels of Responsibility.
    1 Navigation
    2. Cargo Handling and stowage
    3 Controlling the operation of the ship and care for persons on board
    4. Marine Engineering
    5. Electrical, electronic and control engineering
    6. Maintainance and repair
    7. Radiocommunications.

    Levels of Responsibility
    M. Management level
    O. Operational level
    S. Support level

    Will have to look up the Australian certificate now and see what if anything it has to say.
    However am pleased and relieved that a master 1 is unrestricted as would otherwise go places not supposed to go around Europe. Shouldn’t worry too much however as should have been updated in 2006 so is null and void in any case. I can quite understand Brian’s previous post about a master he sailed with showing his disregard of the restrictions being imposed on him if it was in line with anything like those that appears to be imposed on to certain areas where in the past people have gone without too many prohibitions. Maybe if put up a lateen sail and go in as a dhow would have no trouble. Cheers JWS.
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 6th March 2018 at 08:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Query on Ranks

    At the time of Trafalgar, Victory had a crew of 821 men. It would have been possible to sail and manoeuvre the ship with far fewer, but large numbers were needed to man her guns and fight in battle. From the Admiral like Nelson, down to the 31 boys on board, each person had a distinct role to play.

    https://www.hms-victory.com/content/history/crew[/QUOTE]
    Hi Keith.
    I have just finished a book on Nelson, he appears as one of the finest men the RN ever had, when in Kingston in Jamaica his ship lost no men while others lost up to 200 from poor conditions, his men revered him. The book I think is a first edition.
    Des
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 14th February 2022 at 06:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Query on Ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by j.sabourn View Post
    Could never get my head around what the staff captain did John. Did he keep a watch
    This being my first experience of tankers I was very lucky to have a friendly and experienced people in the likes of the 3 mate and chief engineer who helped me no end. Had only a years experience on tankers and were not my favourite ships. Cheers JWS.
    Only ever knew of them on liners and now on cruise ships.
    It appears they do the majority of the day to day operations control in all departments.
    Responsible for meetings of department heads to discuss all manner of operational circumstances.
    But as far as I am aware never stood a watch.
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 8th March 2018 at 04:40 AM.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

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