Arthur Thomas Jones R194550

[Colin Younger]

I’m looking for help and/or advice in my quest to trace my late father-in-law’s merchant navy history. At the moment I am concentrating on the WW2 period. I've also tried to post this on the Shipsnostalgia web site so apologies if there is an overlap

He told me many years ago he had been torpedoed twice during the war and at some stage he had to travel across the USA by train to his next vessel.

His name was Arthur Thomas Jones (R194550) and went to sea in 1939 aged 18. He came from the Rhondda and much of his maritime activity seems centred on Cardiff.

Having worked backwards from the only indexed record of his I’ve received from Kew (National Archives), I have discovered the following:

He signed on to the SS Elisha Walker (168240) sometime in late 1941/early1942. This old ship came British registered late 1941 and sailed from British ports 3 times (Swansea & Avonmouth) the last on July 1942. After a circuitous journey it docked in San Francisco on 17/6/1943 where it reverted to the Panamanian flag and the all-British crew were dismissed. No doubt because of this change of nationality I cannot find any crew lists – does anyone know where I can find it? Could it be in a US Records Office? Without it I do not know his signing on date or previous ship.

On 15/7/1943 Arthur and other SS Elisha Walker crew members signed on to the MV British Merit in New York. This would be his train trip across the USA. The MV British Merit (168295) was not a lucky ship as it had been torpedoed on its maiden voyage in 1942 and spent many months being repaired in New York. Arthur was part of the new crew needed to take her back to the UK and he was discharged on arriving at Avonmouth on 24/8/1943.

At Cardiff on 10/11/1943 he signed on to the MV Fort Lac La Ronge (169062), and was discharged at London Docks on 30/04/1944. During this time the ship spent most of its time along the West African coast and the Mediterranean. He was summoned to re-join the ship on 13/5/1944 by which time it had been assigned to Special Operations. On 3/8/1944 she was torpedoed off Normandy and towed back to Britain but was never repaired and was broken up on 1949. Arthur was discharged on 18/9/1944, given 2 weeks “shipwreck leave” and told to report back to Cardiff Pool on 11/10/1944.

This is one of his torpedoed events but then the trail then goes cold. Can anyone advise how I can determine his vessel before SS Elisha Walker or after MV Fort Lac La Ronge?

There is one extra clue concerning the other torpedo event. Among his effects was a telegram sent to his mother from the offices of the Athel Line. A copy is attached (I hope!). Sadly the date is unreadable. I take it that they would only send such a telegram about their ships and not for other Lines. If so, assuming he joined the SS Elisha Walker at the last British port (1/7/1942) that would leave 11 Athel Line ships torpedoed before joining Elisha Walker and 2 after leaving Fort Lac La Ronge. Does anyone have the crew lists for these vessels? (They are readily available on the web but i can supply a list)

A further complication is that somewhere in the past, it had become believed that he was serving on the Mabriton when it sank on 25/9/1940. I believe this came about because an internet search showed that one Arthur Jones was indeed aboard at that time, as a fireman. However he was Arthur T Jones and usually listed as an Ordinary Seaman. Also I can find no connection between that ship and the Athel Line. If anyone has access to the Mabriton’s crew list it would be nice to confirm if this Arthur Jones is or isn’t him.

You will have probably guessed by my writing that I have never been a sailor not spent any time prior to this project delving into MN archives so apologies if I’ve used incorrect terminology but any help and advice will be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Colin Younger

[Hugh]

Hello Colin,

Can you tell me what document you have from the National Archives - is it BT 391/55/31 - his COMNO pouch? You really need his CRS 10 from BT 382 which is his service record from January 1941.
Let me know so we can direct you.

Regards
Hugh

[Doc Vernon]

As Hugh asks is it this Ref! Just to verify Hugh No other !
Cheers

Reference:	BT 391/55/31
Description:	Name: Jones, Arthur Thomas. Service Number: R194550. Date of Birth: 10/12/1921.
Date:	1944-1945

Hugh I have done a search on FMP but nowt comes up regarding a CRS10 ?? But I know there must be a Link at the NA I have not as yet got that! Cheers Just info I thought ?
Your search criteria

• Arthur
  First name(s)
  
  
• Jones
  Last name
  
  
• 1921
  Birth year
  
  
• England
  Birth county/country
  
  
• R194550
  Discharge number
  

No results on above search!

[Doc Vernon]

May be of use but costs !
Cheers

FMP Unlock Households

Jones A T.jpg

[Doc Vernon]

Think this would be the correct Link for his CRS10 Hugh!
Cheers

Jones Arthur Robert to Jones Charles Samuel

Jones Arthur Robert to Jones Charles Samuel | The National Archives

[Colin Younger]

Hello Colin,

Can you tell me what document you have from the National Archives - is it BT 391/55/31 - his COMNO pouch? You really need his CRS 10 from BT 382 which is his service record from January 1941.
Let me know so we can direct you.

Regards
Hugh

Hi Hugh, Yes I obtained BT 391/55/31 and this only contained reference to Fort Lac La Ronge but that led me to BT 381/313 and that contained the crew list of Fort Lac La Ronge and that Arthur's previous ship had been British Merit. This led me to obtain BT 381/2627 to obtain its crew list which revealed Arthur's previous ship had been Elisha Walker. My searches of NA only revealed BT 391/55/31 with any indexed reference to Arthur although his presence in the 2 BT 381s I mention shows there is much that is not indexed.

What is a CRS 10?

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Vernon - yes that is him

[Colin Younger]

Think this would be the correct Link for his CRS10 Hugh!
Cheers

Jones Arthur Robert to Jones Charles Samuel

Jones Arthur Robert to Jones Charles Samuel | The National Archives

Thanks for that link Vernon. I did not know it existed - I thought BT 372 contained his details. You live and learn. Do you recommend I contavct NA and ask them if Arthur's records exist?

[Hugh]

Colin,
The cheapest, best and quickest way to your end journey is to obtain his CRS10 - see the link by Vernon. I would advise a trip to Kew or employ a researcher.
His file, if it has survived, will be held in a block of up to 60 other names and Kew would deem this as research and charge accordingly so better if you are able to visit. Once you have ship names you can get crew agreements if you wish to go deeper.
Regards
Hugh

[Colin Younger]

Colin,
The cheapest, best and quickest way to your end journey is to obtain his CRS10 - see the link by Vernon. I would advise a trip to Kew or employ a researcher.
His file, if it has survived, will be held in a block of up to 60 other names and Kew would deem this as research and charge accordingly so better if you are able to visit. Once you have ship names you can get crew agreements if you wish to go deeper.
Regards
Hugh

Thanks Hugh I think a trip to Kew may be on the cards. A question though what is the difference between the CRS10 in BT 382 and CRS 3 in BT 372?

[Doc Vernon]

These forms were often issued to merchant seamen and are referenced in merchant seamen records we hold.

CRS	Description
CRS 1	Merchant navy personnel, seamen discharged and immediately re-engaged on articles for further service in the same ship
CRS 2	Transfer from ship to leave and reserve pool
CRS 3	Seaman remaining in the employ of the same management
CRS 4	Entry form to merchant navy reserve pool when not direct from sea-going employment
CRS 5	Advice to manager of employment exchange that a seaman has been instructed to report to his office
CRS 6	Absentee report
CRS 7	Cancelling absentee report
CRS 8	Certificate of discharge from merchant navy service
CRS 8A	Right of seamen to appeal against discharge from reserve pool
CRS 9	Instructing a seaman to report for employment in a certain ship
CRS 10	Seaman’s history sheet
CRS 11	Registrar General Shipping forwarding cards, ED350 to merchant navy reserve pool
CRS 12	Merchant navy reserve pool forwarding cards ED350 to Superintendent MMO
CRS 13	Superintendent, MMO forwarding cards ED350 to Ministry of Labour, and subsequent action
CRS 13a TE	For action under MIL Circular No 121/
CRS 13a E	For action under M/L Circular No 23/53
CRS 13aEA(2)	For action under M/L Circular No 23/60
CRS 13a SC	Training of youths for merchant navy, M/L Circ 6/94
CRS 14	Release from merchant navy obligations. Asking applicant for personal particulars
CRS 15	Release from merchant navy obligations. Advising applicant of his liability to register under the Registration for Employment Order, 1941
CRS 16	Forwarding to the merchant navy reserve pool application for release from merchant navy obligations
CRS 17	Informing applicant of the result of his request for release from merchant navy obligations
CRS 18	Certifying that a former seaman is not now required for service in the merchant navy
CRS 19	Forwarding to merchant navy reserve pool central office an application from a man who desires to be released from the armed forces in order to return to the merchant navy
CRS 20	Acknowledging a request for release from the armed forces and informing application what action he should take if the request is granted
CRS 21	Refusing an application for permission to transfer from the armed forces to the merchant navy
CRS 22	Letter to Admiralty, War Office and Air Ministry asking for a man to be transferred from the forces to an unpaid reserve for service in the merchant navy
CRS 23	Telling local pool that a man has been released from the forces and will report to them shortly
CRS 24	Application to return to seagoing employment. No indication that writer is subject to the Registration for Employment Order. Referring applicant to local pool
CRS 25	Telling applicant who has had no sea service that his application for employment in the merchant navy has been referred to pool
CRS 26	Telling applicant that we are unable to assist him to obtain shore. Directing him to Ministry of Labour employment
CRS 27	Applicant has not been to sea since 31st December 1935. Referring him to Ministry of Labour (ED 10 procedure)
CRS 28	Asking for particulars of a seaman’s age, occupation and last discharge
CRS 29	Telling an ED350 registered man that the Pool have been told of his willingness to return to Merchant Navy at once
CRS 30	Medical Certificate
CRS 31	Asking applicant to produce evidence of acceptability as pilot or observer
CRS 32	Tells Air Ministry (or Admiralty) of a seaman’s release for duty as pilot or observer
CRS 33	Special certificate of release as pilot or observer only
CRS 34	Telling applicant that release has been granted for entry into RAF (or FAA) as pilot or observer
CRS 35	Telling local pool that a release to train a s pilot or observer has not been granted
CRS 36	Telling central pool that a seaman desires release to train as pilot or and asking for their observations observer
CRS 37	Release from armed forces to serve in the merchant navy
CRS 38	Questioning released armed forces man, returning, or still required for the merchant navy
CRS 39	British seaman authorised to serve in a non-British ship
CRS 40	British Seaman discharged from a non-British ship
CRS 41	Application for entry into reserve pool
CRS 42	Failure to notify Registrar General Shipping & Seamen of a seaman serving in a ship or previous evidence of service in merchant navy
CRS 43	Information received of seaman serving in a ship. No CRS form of engagement received
CRS 44	Instructions to report after discharge
CRS 45	Application to return to employment in merchant navy
CRS 46	Return to unit of a released man
CRS 47	Confirming telephone message regarding discharge of seaman, giving reasons
CRS 48	Granting discharge from merchant navy. Advising seaman that CRS 8 will be issued by Registrar General Shipping under certain conditions (and enclosure)
CRS 49	Forwarding to seaman CRS 8 issued by Registrar General Shipping
CRS 50	A certificate of temporary release from pool due to medical unfitness
CRS 51	Loan of seaman from pool for service in a ship to which the Essential Work Order (Merchant Navy) 1942 does not apply
CRS 52	(Tally card; to be attached to NR 110). Slip for attachment to alien seamen’s documents
CRS 52A	Revised “Notice” for NR l 10
CRS 53	British seaman’s identity card
CRS 54	Application for British seaman’s identity card
CRS 55	Report of loss of a British Seamen’s identity card
CRS 56	Transfer of a seaman to national registration and civil rationing
CRS 57	Record of issue of ration cards to a seaman ashore
CRS 59	Forms of receipt and order on photographer
CRS 59A	Acknowledgement of application for British seaman’s identity card
CRS 59B	Order for photograph
CRS 60	Advising MMO how to set upon seamen’s identity card invalid by National Registration Officer
CRS 61	Seaman’s identity card improperly held, asking National Registration Officer to act
CRS 62	Asking MMO to issue CRS 8 to seaman whose discharge has been recommended by us and central pool
CRS 63	Wanted for desertion abroad
CRS 64	Referring to period of loan in connection with CRS 51
CRS 65	Action sheet for surrendered or impounded identity cards
CRS 66	Process sheet for national service action
CRS 67	Requesting seaman to call at MMO for conversion of national registration card
CRS 68	Information from national registration that member is holder of unconverted NR 110 number
CRS 69	Instructions to MMO to issue seaman’s unemployment insurance book
CRS 70	Relating to alleged deserters from the army to be used in the merchant navy reserve
CRS 71	Amendment of BSIC
CRS 74	Daily operational pool report of personnel movements
CRS 75	Instructions to seamen whose BSIC is incorrect
CRS 76	MNRP notice of termination of employment
CRS 77	Request for RS3 pouch (internal)
CRS 78	Relating to withdrawal of RS3 pouch from file
CRS 79	For completing record as to latest movement contained in RS3 pouch
CRS 80	Reporting admission of seaman to HM prison
CRS 81	Medical xxamination of certificates engineers and apprentices
CRS 81(2)	Medical examination of volunteer apprentices
CRS 82	Report of loss abroad of a BSIC
CRS 83	Temporary identity card for issue abroad
CRS 84	BSIC enquiry form
CRS 85	Medical report on a merchant seaman
CRS 86	Requesting sea cadet to obtain parents consent to enter training school
CRS 87	Wallasey sea school; parents consent to cadet to enter
CRS 88	Wallasey sea school rejection of application
CRS 89	Wallasey sea school preliminary acceptance of cadet’s application to enter
CRS 90	Wallasey sea school final acceptance of sea cadet
CRS 91	Letter to manager, labour exchange relating to application to become a sea cadet
CRS 92	Notification to Inland Revenue of seaman’s departure from pool
CRS 93	Notification to Inland Revenue of opening or closing of articles
CRS 94	Inland Revenue voyage slip
CRS 99	Letter to applicant for training in Wallasey Sea school enclosing forms
CRS 100	Training youths for the merchant navy. Application form
CRS 101	Application form for ribbon 1939/45 Star
CRS 102	Application forwarding a supply of ribbon 1939/45 Star
CRS 103	Letter informing applicant he is not eligible for the 1939/456 Star
CRS 104	Letter to application re 1939/45 Star stating claim is being considered
CRS 105	Letter informing relatives of a deceased seaman that ribbon cannot be issued to them
CRS 10 -CRS 108	Letter explaining procedure for applying for 1939/45 Star
CRS 109	1939/45 Star
CRS 109A	Amendment slip
CRS 110	Application for War medal
CRS 111-CRS 117	Application for 1939/45 Star
CRS 118	1939/45 Star
CRS 119	1939/45 Star Chevrons for war service
CRS 120	1939/45 Star Wound Stripes
CRS 121	Application for clothing coupons by a seaman who has lost his clothing book
CRS 122	Merchant Navy Selection Board. Report of interview
CRS 123	Letters to volunteers with instructions to report to Fireman’s Training school
CRS 124	Instruction to report to Cooks Training school
CRS 125	Volunteer questionnaire
CRS 126	Letter to deck or steward trainee
CRS 127-CRS 128	Entry of men registered under National Service Act
CRS 129	Electoral declaration record card proxy voting
CRS 130	Parliament (Elections and Meeting) Act 1943
CRS 131-CRS 134	Proxy meeting
CRS 135	Temporary identity card, ex POW
CRS 136-CRS 139	Alteration of income tax coding
CRS 140-CRS 141	Kings badge
CRS 142	Ships Records to CRS section
CRS 146	Release from merchant navy to the building trades
CRS 150	Report of engagements
CRS 151	Report of discharge
CRS 152	Report of engagement advice note
CRS 153	Report of discharge advice note
CRS 154	Seaman to whom a British seaman’s identity card has been issued (or re-issued)
CRS 155	Statement of a seaman seeking to transfer to the national register, the loss of his British seaman’s identity card and for his merchant navy clothing book