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Thread: Millennials in shipping

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Millennials in shipping

    1... Tanya writing for a magazine called Safety at Sea what do you actually cover..?. Seamen from the year dot have lead a precaurious life the same as fishermen and miners and like them are very aware of the hazards they face at times. Most of us safety primary was advice such as only fools and first trippers and firemen sit on ships rails, and never run on a ship, which I dispute as have ran at certain times. Safety is what you make it and learn through mainly experience. Most seamen dislike Safety officers telling them to put on safety boots, when not so long ago there were none on board ships,the same as protective clothing, they go to lectures and receive talks from people who we're in dads bag when they were in Baghdad.. Seaman don't like being talked down to by people who.make a living way above their own and telling them stuff they already know. That is the shipboard side of the old type of sailor man, he was a fatalist. Today they do numerous courses some have meaning some don't. To talk to a modern day mariner of. 20 years of age is totally different than talking to an 80 year old one, both have different values. As your post 2 says there may be a few younger seafarers who may have the input you desire, but the older ones will give you one hand for the ship and one for yourself. Regards JWS
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 10th August 2017 at 11:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Millennials in shipping

    Whilst not one of the millennials referred to by Tanya (hope she checks in here occasionally to read her posts) I went to sea in 1967 first, following in my fathers footsteps and coming from an area of the country where jobs were mainly in the agricultural or tourism sector a sea going career certainly appealed to me and it certainly never disappointed me. Having had to retire hurt 9 years ago, if it had not been forced upon me, I would still be sailing to day, despite the immense changes that have taken places over the past 40 years or more. When lecturing I was often sked by cadets and candidates for O.O.W. why I went to sea and what it could offer them.
    Apart from the obvious answers, decent salary, paid leave, free food etc. I always used to stress the importance that with mixed crews you got the opportunity to learn different cultures and also, hopefully, get a rudimentary basic knowledge of other languages along with the opportunity to visit, albeit briefly, foreign countries as well as viewing the world. There is nothing to compare, for instance, to a working passage through the Suez or Panama Canals, sailing through the Islands of the Indonesian archipelago or facing a North Atlantic gale and coming through unscathed.
    rgds
    JA

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    Default Re: Millennials in shipping

    Tanya most of us on this site are in their 60's to 90's and we lived in a different world and were not wrapped in cotton wool and being told what to do by people who had never set foot on a deck. We learned the hard way, which was the only way in our day, and although the general rule was one hand for yourself and one for the ship was not always possible when climbing a mainmast in a gale with a light bulb in your mouth to change one that had gone out, it was called learning on the job and we enjoyed every minute of it

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    Default Re: Millennials in shipping

    Hi Tanya,
    I just wondered if any of your `Millennials` could do this and then carry on with a life long Seafaring Career.?
    I was just 17 years of age when I joined this ship, no glamourous ships and accommodation on this one......................
    .
    This was a hard ship,

    SS BEECHFIELD
    W. SAVAGES, Ltd. ZILLAH STEAMSHIP CO

    I joined the BEECHFIELD in Liverpool in at the end of November 1952, she was built in Lytham, around 1900, a coal burning steamship, tall woodbine funnel, and an open wheelhouse, oil skins and sea boots were required when on the wheel, I was 17 years old and an Ordinary Seaman.
    We lived in the focsle underneath the chain locker, a square hatch on the deck next to the chain locker with a vertical ladder going down to a dark and smoky open focsle with two firemen, two ABs and me, it was a death trap down there
    There was no electricity on board, all the navigation lights and accommodation lights were oil lamps, and my job was to keep them trimmed daily. Down in the fore peak where we lived was one grimy oil lamp, and it was still dark with that on, there was a coal bogey in the middle surrounded with ash, cinders and coal and the smoke was thick, there was no ventilation down there, we were below the water line when she was loaded. There were five filthy bunks, black with coal dust mattress, one filthy blanket, of course no sheets, pillows or towels. There was no bathroom sinks or toilet, it was unbelievable.
    One old fireman was 84 years old and permanently bent over at an angle of 90 degrees, he had never paid off for over 25 years he had no where to live and would have lost his job if he had paid off so he was there for ever.
    The other fireman was a completely mad Irishman, always talking to himself and sometimes he had terrific arguments,
    There were two ABs, one was over 80 years old, and had no where else to live, the other one joined with me, he was OK but after one week he leapt ashore, I was going as well but the Skipper, Captain Jim Marshall, made me up to AB, with a big increase in pay, so I stayed on for a bit longer.
    We loaded coal for Dublin, Belfast, Londonderry, and stone from Paenmenmawr and Trevor in North Wales and Peel Island back to Liverpool. If you wanted a crap or a shower you had to wait until you got to the other side and leg it to the Seamens Mission.
    It was December, the weather was atrocious, and on the open bridge the wheel was six feet in diameter with chains and rods to the rudder. When she was shipping seas they would go right over the open wheel house and you would get swept off the wheel and if you hung on to the wheel and a sea hit the rudder it would spin and throw you over the top and across the bridge if you tried to hang on.
    The Captains way of navigating to Belfast or to the North of that would be ""Keep it on this magnetic course and if you see a light ahead it would be the Isle of Man so bring her round to port and when the light is abaft the Starboard beam bring her round to the next course, I will see you tomorrow," then all hands would turn in, I would be up there for about ten hours clinging to a spinning wheel, the sea, hail, snow and rain blinding my eyes, soaking wet and hands frozen to the wheel.
    During one of these storms after leaving Derry, with big heavy seas and swell coming in from the North Atlantic, the Cook got burned to death, A large pan of chip fat was flung off the stove and went all over him when the ship took a big roll, and then it burst into flames when some went onto the galley fire and he became a ball of flame and collapsed on deck into the scupper screaming his last.
    The Cook was dying in the scuppers, blackened by the flames, the Second Engineer caught sight of him leaping about and then collapsing. He got a bucket of water and flung it over him to dowse the flames but it was too late. He had gone to where all good Cooks and not so good Cooks go to, that great Galley, with unlimited stores, in the sky.
    All this time the wind was blowing a hooley and seas crashing over the decks.
    We had to pick him up and we laid him on the hatch, Captain Marshall certified him dead. He told us to lash him on the hatch, a line around his wrists and ankles and star shaped, he said the salt spray, would keep him fresh and stop him from stinking. He looked gruesome lying there especially at night his head moving backwards and forwards with the ship rolling. He stayed there until we arrived in Liverpool two days later. A Policeman and an undertaker came down and took him away.
    The Mad Irishman would sit on the hatch and have some terrific arguments with the dead Cook, and became angry when the Cook was ignoring him.
    The Captain told me I was to be the Cook, until they got a replacement but I still had to do the night watches on the wheel. There was not enough food to go round, what the Cook had done with the food money no one knew, but he had a few empty whisky bottles in his bunk.
    On those Coasters, known as Weekly Boats, you got paid weekly and out of your wage you had to pay the Cook for the food every Friday, and then he went ashore shopping including getting drunk in the alehouse on the way.
    I was knackered doing the night watch as well as Cooking, but a few days later he found some dead beat `Cook` from somewhere.
    Then he got rid of the Mad Irishman, he was in the focsle and started an argument with the coal bogey and because it would not stand up and fight he kicked the crap out of it, flaming coals and hot ash and smoke was all over the focsle, fire was burning every where. We had to leap up on deck and throw a heaving line with a bucket attached over the side and the pass the bucket of water down the hatch to pour on the flames. After a few of these the focsle was full of smoke and steam.
    "That`ll teach the baatard not to fight wid me". said Paddy
    The Captain kicked him down the gangway. I was going to follow, `I`ll promote you to Fireman` said Captain Marshall, `it is a good experience`.
    It sure was, four hours on and four hours off, two furnaces, do your own trimming. Feed `em, throw a pitch on, a little twist of the wrist and jerk and spread the coal evenly across the fires, rake and slice break up the clinker, dump your own ashes at the end of the four hour watch, keep her on the blood, 180 psi, and watch the water level, I got myself a belt with the buckle at the back. A buckle at the front could blister your belly with heat of the furnace on the metal. The sweat would cut rivers in the ash and coal dust stuck to my face and chest.
    No lights down there, just the light from the flames in the furnace, like something out of Dante. After dumping the ashes and handing over with a load of coal on the plates for the next man it would be twenty minutes later, then fight my way forard between the waves and then crash on my filthy mattress still covered in ash and coal dust, at seven bells, three hours later, get down to the galley have a bacon butty and then stagger down the fiddly to the furnaces.
    After one month I had had enough, and paid off, a much wiser and fitter man. Even though Captain Marshall pleaded with me to stay on, "I will teach you Navigation if you do, and then you can go Mate".
    Next week I went back to the Pool, Mr Repp said, "Why didn`t you stay there, you have only been there for a month" it seemed like a lifetime to me, I had aged ten years, "Here is another coaster, one of Everards, the `Amity." . That is another story.

    Cheers
    Brian
    Last edited by Captain Kong; 10th August 2017 at 04:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Millennials in shipping

    ###the only bit of safety iwas ever told was if you drop your soap in the shower dont bend down to pick it up.......that was after you pumped up the water by hand ....and the tank was...heated by steam to much steam and you burnt ....the tank only held enough water for soaping so if your mate wouldnt pump it it up for you .....the only thing was for you to get out the shower and pump more water .......no heating just bear bulkheads.... hence the shout weres billy.. hes pumping his mate which always bought a laugh.....which was quickly reprimanded by the watch below.....mv avonmoor one of runcimans tramps1958.... all accom down aft for sailors and firemen loved it though proper shipmates and proper seamen.....was told she was one of the ist into singapore after the jap surrender.......happy days......she was built 43 i think ....rotten to bits sold to the chinese when we got back to shields...JS was apprentice or third mate in her before me ....COS HE IS A LOT OLDER,,,,,LOL cappy

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    Default Re: Millennials in shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kong View Post
    Hi Tanya,
    I just wondered if any of your `Millennials` could do this and then carry on with a life long Seafaring Career.?
    I was just 17 years of age when I joined this ship, no glamourous ships and accommodation on this one......................
    .
    This was a hard ship,

    SS BEECHFIELD
    W. SAVAGES, Ltd. ZILLAH STEAMSHIP CO

    I joined the BEECHFIELD in Liverpool in at the end of November 1952, she was built in Lytham, around 1900, a coal burning steamship, tall woodbine funnel, and an open wheelhouse, oil skins and sea boots were required when on the wheel, I was 17 years old and an Ordinary Seaman.
    We lived in the focsle underneath the chain locker, a square hatch on the deck next to the chain locker with a vertical ladder going down to a dark and smoky open focsle with two firemen, two ABs and me, it was a death trap down there
    There was no electricity on board, all the navigation lights and accommodation lights were oil lamps, and my job was to keep them trimmed daily. Down in the fore peak where we lived was one grimy oil lamp, and it was still dark with that on, there was a coal bogey in the middle surrounded with ash, cinders and coal and the smoke was thick, there was no ventilation down there, we were below the water line when she was loaded. There were five filthy bunks, black with coal dust mattress, one filthy blanket, of course no sheets, pillows or towels. There was no bathroom sinks or toilet, it was unbelievable.
    One old fireman was 84 years old and permanently bent over at an angle of 90 degrees, he had never paid off for over 25 years he had no where to live and would have lost his job if he had paid off so he was there for ever.
    The other fireman was a completely mad Irishman, always talking to himself and sometimes he had terrific arguments,
    There were two ABs, one was over 80 years old, and had no where else to live, the other one joined with me, he was OK but after one week he leapt ashore, I was going as well but the Skipper, Captain Jim Marshall, made me up to AB, with a big increase in pay, so I stayed on for a bit longer.
    We loaded coal for Dublin, Belfast, Londonderry, and stone from Paenmenmawr and Trevor in North Wales and Peel Island back to Liverpool. If you wanted a crap or a shower you had to wait until you got to the other side and leg it to the Seamens Mission.
    It was December, the weather was atrocious, and on the open bridge the wheel was six feet in diameter with chains and rods to the rudder. When she was shipping seas they would go right over the open wheel house and you would get swept off the wheel and if you hung on to the wheel and a sea hit the rudder it would spin and throw you over the top and across the bridge if you tried to hang on.
    The Captains way of navigating to Belfast or to the North of that would be ""Keep it on this magnetic course and if you see a light ahead it would be the Isle of Man so bring her round to port and when the light is abaft the Starboard beam bring her round to the next course, I will see you tomorrow," then all hands would turn in, I would be up there for about ten hours clinging to a spinning wheel, the sea, hail, snow and rain blinding my eyes, soaking wet and hands frozen to the wheel.
    During one of these storms after leaving Derry, with big heavy seas and swell coming in from the North Atlantic, the Cook got burned to death, A large pan of chip fat was flung off the stove and went all over him when the ship took a big roll, and then it burst into flames when some went onto the galley fire and he became a ball of flame and collapsed on deck into the scupper screaming his last.
    The Cook was dying in the scuppers, blackened by the flames, the Second Engineer caught sight of him leaping about and then collapsing. He got a bucket of water and flung it over him to dowse the flames but it was too late. He had gone to where all good Cooks and not so good Cooks go to, that great Galley, with unlimited stores, in the sky.
    All this time the wind was blowing a hooley and seas crashing over the decks.
    We had to pick him up and we laid him on the hatch, Captain Marshall certified him dead. He told us to lash him on the hatch, a line around his wrists and ankles and star shaped, he said the salt spray, would keep him fresh and stop him from stinking. He looked gruesome lying there especially at night his head moving backwards and forwards with the ship rolling. He stayed there until we arrived in Liverpool two days later. A Policeman and an undertaker came down and took him away.
    The Mad Irishman would sit on the hatch and have some terrific arguments with the dead Cook, and became angry when the Cook was ignoring him.
    The Captain told me I was to be the Cook, until they got a replacement but I still had to do the night watches on the wheel. There was not enough food to go round, what the Cook had done with the food money no one knew, but he had a few empty whisky bottles in his bunk.
    On those Coasters, known as Weekly Boats, you got paid weekly and out of your wage you had to pay the Cook for the food every Friday, and then he went ashore shopping including getting drunk in the alehouse on the way.
    I was knackered doing the night watch as well as Cooking, but a few days later he found some dead beat `Cook` from somewhere.
    Then he got rid of the Mad Irishman, he was in the focsle and started an argument with the coal bogey and because it would not stand up and fight he kicked the crap out of it, flaming coals and hot ash and smoke was all over the focsle, fire was burning every where. We had to leap up on deck and throw a heaving line with a bucket attached over the side and the pass the bucket of water down the hatch to pour on the flames. After a few of these the focsle was full of smoke and steam.
    "That`ll teach the baatard not to fight wid me". said Paddy
    The Captain kicked him down the gangway. I was going to follow, `I`ll promote you to Fireman` said Captain Marshall, `it is a good experience`.
    It sure was, four hours on and four hours off, two furnaces, do your own trimming. Feed `em, throw a pitch on, a little twist of the wrist and jerk and spread the coal evenly across the fires, rake and slice break up the clinker, dump your own ashes at the end of the four hour watch, keep her on the blood, 180 psi, and watch the water level, I got myself a belt with the buckle at the back. A buckle at the front could blister your belly with heat of the furnace on the metal. The sweat would cut rivers in the ash and coal dust stuck to my face and chest.
    No lights down there, just the light from the flames in the furnace, like something out of Dante. After dumping the ashes and handing over with a load of coal on the plates for the next man it would be twenty minutes later, then fight my way forard between the waves and then crash on my filthy mattress still covered in ash and coal dust, at seven bells, three hours later, get down to the galley have a bacon butty and then stagger down the fiddly to the furnaces.
    After one month I had had enough, and paid off, a much wiser and fitter man. Even though Captain Marshall pleaded with me to stay on, "I will teach you Navigation if you do, and then you can go Mate".
    Next week I went back to the Pool, Mr Repp said, "Why didn`t you stay there, you have only been there for a month" it seemed like a lifetime to me, I had aged ten years, "Here is another coaster, one of Everards, the `Amity." . That is another story.

    Cheers
    Brian
    jeezes Christ capt
    ive just re-read ( adlard coles heavy weather sailing) after reading it the first time about ten fifteen years ago and your story puts his to shame and adlard coles was hoving to in force tens on a sailing boat. I think if I had read your story before going on my first fishing boat in the isle of man I don't think I would have gone.
    tom

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cappy View Post
    ###the only bit of safety iwas ever told was if you drop your soap in the shower dont bend down to pick it up.......that was after you pumped up the water by hand ....and the tank was...heated by steam to much steam and you burnt ....the tank only held enough water for soaping so if your mate wouldnt pump it it up for you .....the only thing was for you to get out the shower and pump more water .......no heating just bear bulkheads.... hence the shout weres billy.. hes pumping his mate which always bought a laugh.....which was quickly reprimanded by the watch below.....mv avonmoor one of runcimans tramps1958.... all accom down aft for sailors and firemen loved it though proper shipmates and proper seamen.....was told she was one of the ist into singapore after the jap surrender.......happy days......she was built 43 i think ....rotten to bits sold to the chinese when we got back to shields...JS was apprentice or third mate in her before me ....COS HE IS A LOT OLDER,,,,,LOL cappy
    hi cappy
    so you have not got a hump then, I'm still laughing at this one
    tom

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    Default Re: Millennials in shipping

    A good example that I would think between the knowledge of a present day AB using wire splicing and the old time AB. Was the old time AB would, know there were 12 24 or 37 wires to a strand and put an eye in the wire no bother. A modern AB would first want to know what a wire splice was and then inform you it was now illegal and go and get the ferrule machine out. The powers that be have decided that a ferrule is stronger than a splice. In a lot of cases this is good news for people working on the deck of an offshore anchor handler as the ferrule is used for preventing the wire passing through the sharks jaw and previous to the sharks jaw the pelican hook so has gone a long way to adding to the safety of the job. This from a hands on part of the job, the SWL of the ferrule being stamped on its shell, the splice not so. So we trust in what we are told. Safety is in the eye of the beholder and every seaman used to take certain responsibilities for his own welfare, he is the one aware of his surroundings, not someone with a checklist in his hand never having done the job himself. JS
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 11th August 2017 at 02:25 AM.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Millennials in shipping

    I have seen those wooden barrels and the bung hole and have seen what some times goes in that bung hole and it was not Mary's wooden leg.
    But one guy did say it felt a bit like a Pork sausage.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

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  10. #19
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    Default Re: Millennials in shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by j.sabourn View Post
    A good example that I would think between the knowledge of a present day AB using wire splicing and the old time AB. Was the old time AB would, know there were 12 24 or 37 wires to a strand and put an eye in the wire no bother. A modern AB would first want to know what a wire splice was and then inform you it was now illegal and go and get the ferrule machine out. The powers that be have decided that a ferrule is stronger than a splice. In a lot of cases this is good news for people working on the deck of an offshore anchor handler as the ferrule is used for preventing the wire passing through the sharks jaw and previous to the sharks jaw the pelican hook so has gone a long way to adding to the safety of the job. This from a hands on part of the job, the SWL of the ferrule being stamped on its shell, the splice not so. So we trust in what we are told. Safety is in the eye of the beholder and every seaman used to take certain responsibilities for his own welfare, he is the one aware of his surroundings, not someone with a checklist in his hand never having done the job himself. JS
    John. I have a bad memory of what can happen to a ferrule. On one very trying anchor job the last pennant with the anchor attached was all most over the roller when the ferrule caught a sharp bit of damaged deck and it split open like a banana. Anchor now back on the seabed, chasing hook made ready and some hours later finally had the anchor aboard. The Skipper Jim Ormiston was not a happy chappy we had started the rig shift on the 19th of December and finished on the 4th of January. Xmas Dinner on the 4th of January not much fun.

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    Default Re: Millennials in shipping

    Bill to be honest with you I am no expert on ferrules, and whenever went on rigs for shifting out here as by Australian law there had to be a marine presence on rig. They usually had a couple of newly made up pennants with ferrules for me to sign up on for their certificates. They proabably knew more than me, so went through the motions of tapping and looking for any cracks and seeing they had the correct SWL stamped on and the date. There are a few ex riggers on here and they may know a bit more about. I sailed with the bloke you mention as mate with him but only have hazy recollections. Been on a few anchor jobs that weren't all straight forward there were never two jobs the same. When your on the bridge side looking down my imagination used to be rife seeing men working with these wires and what you would do if one came adrift. Was easier being on deck yourself not so much worry. How's retirement with you? Regards JS
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 11th August 2017 at 09:40 PM.

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