Seaman's photo

[Julie McLaughlan]

Hello!

I just registered on here today so excuse me if I'm not familiar with the protocol

My Merchant Marine great-grandfather, William Wilson (born in Belfast Jan 29, 1881), was killed (age 37) on the SS Dunbarmoor March 8, 1917. Other than the CWWGC information, I have been unable to find any other information regarding his MN service. I have a few specific questions, if anyone is able to shed light on any answers:

1) Would he have been awarded any medals due to the fact that he was killed during WW1 (even though he wasn't actually part of the war, his ship was armed for protection in case of an attack, and it was attacked and sunk by a German U-boat off the coast of Fastnet)? And would his family have received the customary letter from the King?

2) Is there anywhere I can find a photo of him. I've read there should be a card with a photo when he registered for the Merchant Navy, but whether it is still part of any surviving record is another thing.

3) I haven't been able to find leads to any Crewlists he might be on. There is no surviving crewlist for the Dunbarmoor so I haven't even been able work backwards from that one.

I have tried to search the National Archives for records but I just always seem to get lost, and when I do find something promising, I just end up going around in circles!

Any help or leads anyone can offer I would be most grateful.

Julie

[gray_marian]

Hi Julie, Welcome to the site. Did your gt,grandfather have a middle name beginning with J?

Name: William James Wilson
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 6 May 1885......[dates & name spelling can be misleading on Ancestry]
Birth Place: Belfast Co. Antrim
Service number: 213652
First Service Date: 13 Feb 1901
First Ship Served On: Black Prince
Last Service Date: 6 Sep 1913
Last Ship Served On: Vivid I

1911 Census
Name: William J Wilson
Age in 1911: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Belfast, Ireland
Civil Parish: Saltash
Search Photos: Search for 'Saltash' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Street address: H M S Defiance, Hamoaze Off Saltash
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Leading seaman


Name: W Wilson?
Age: 29
Birth Year: abt 1881
Birth Place: Belfast
Event Date: 1910
Port of Registry: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ship Name: Indra
Official Number: 106839
Reference Number: 387CRE/436

[Doc Vernon]

Welcome to the site Julie
I hope with time you will be able to get more info on what you are looking for!
A good Member named Hugh I know will try and assist where he can,as he is good at these searches!

I think the Document (Card) you are referring to is the CR10 which is the Record Card that Holds a Picture of the Seaman when he joined!
.

However many were destroyed for some reason so there are limited ones left I hear?? Hugh will come to the rescue!

THE Southampton city Archives holds the ones not destroyed

https://www.southampton.gov.uk/libra...nt-seamen.aspx



Capture CR10 Front.jpg

Capture CR10 bACK.jpg

I have looked at the Archives in Canada (they hold many Crew Lists)and see that the Ship
Dunbarmoor is listed ,there is a crew list for the Year 1916 and although I know you said he was killed in 1917 there is that possibility that he was on board in 1916 as well??

Search results for Crew Lists in the Maritime History Archive
Types of Agreements and Accounts page provides an explanation for the codes referring to
the crew agreements held at the Maritime History Archive.


Official_No: 118300 is for the Search results for Crew Lists in the Maritime History Archive
Types of Agreements and Accounts page provides an explanation for the codes referring to
the crew agreements held at the Maritime History Archive.


Official_No: 118300 Dunbarmoor


1903: E2

1904: E2

1906: E2

1907: E2

1908: E2

1909: E2

1910: E2

1911: E2

1912: E2

1913: E2

1914: E2

1916: E2

Not much I know but may help!
Cheers and good luck!

There is also Crew list for that Ship held at the National Archives which may be better??

Official Nos: 118279, 118285, 118286, 118287, 118288, 118290, 118291, 118292, 118295,... | The National Archives

[Doc Vernon]

SS Dunbarmoor, built by W. Doxford & Sons, Ltd., Sunderland in 1903 and owned at the time of her loss by Moor Line, Ltd. (W. Runciman & Co.), London, was a British steamer of 3651 tons.

On March 8th, 1917, Dunbarmoor, on a voyage from Rosario to Manchester with a cargo of wheat, was sunk by the German submarine U-44 (Paul Wagenführ), 180 miles WNW of Fastnet. 12 persons were lost.


Capture W Wilson.JPG

[j.sabourn]

As I served my time in Moor Line Ltd alias Sir Walter Runciman, as a matter of interest Vernon when I saw the first part of the date of birth of the name Wilson as the 29 th. January the day after mine I thought I may have known him until I saw the year as in the 1800"s and as Cappy would say that is about right, is not so. However when Runcimans main office was at 56 Pilgrim Street Newcastle on Tyne until about 1964, they used to have in a glass case in the foyer a book with all the ships they lost in the 2 Great Wars. I never saw the book opened but imagine they would have contained all the personell also lost. They moved the office up to Anchor Line Offices in Glasgow and were I believe one of the controlling interests in that company and believe they worked the Moor Line ships under the title of Runciman shipping. The book with all their losses I am sure if they are still around will still be in their custody, and if not around someone will know what museum it probably finished up at. Cheers JWS PS Believe Sir Walter also had interests in Doxfords of Sunderland, why other would he call his mansion Doxford Hall Cheers JWS

[Doc Vernon]

Would be interesting to see that Book for some JS
Cheers

[j.sabourn]

It was said at one time they had a ship for every letter of the alphabet. The D when I was there was Dartmoor, when other ships came close to was always the usual shout of How long are you in for, and any geordies aboard. The ships the 11 years I was there were the Avonmoor,Brockleymoor,Cragmoor,Dartmoor,Exmoor,Fer nmoor (Lost in S.China sea 1954),Glenmoor,Hazelmoor, Innesmoor, Jedmoor, Kirriemoor, Linkmoor. I was on 6 of them after finishing time. Although a hard company to work for and always look back on, most of it as an ordeal to get through, received a better background to life in every aspect than what the youngsters of today do. Cheers JWS

[Doc Vernon]

Walter Runciman & Co / Moor Line

[Ivan Cloherty]

1) Would he have been awarded any medals due to the fact that he was killed during WW1 (even though he wasn't actually part of the war, his ship was armed for protection in case of an attack, and it was attacked and sunk by a German U-boat off the coast of Fastnet)? And would his family have received the customary letter from the King?

Julie your great grandfather WAS part of the war, and a very important part of it, without the Merchant Navy and its (forgotten) personnel the troops and their equipment would never have reached their fields of operation or have the equipment to carry out their duties, nor would they in later years been evacuated from Dunkirk, or been able to carry out the D Day invasions (over 1500 Merchant vessels involved) and 50,000 MN seamen and in later years the Falklands, 52 MN vessels involved. Whether he received medals or not, is immaterial, he WAS a war veteran and was in far greater danger at times than a lot who wore a Regular Services uniform. You have every right to be proud of his service and don't let anyone tell you different, over 17000 MN in WWI and 32000 in WWII gave their lives in the service of their country. Merchant Navy Day on the 3rd September each year is an occasion to remember those who gave their lives and although there will never be an official two minutes silence at 1100 hours you can hold your own vigil at that time each year to remember your great grandfather and his fellow forgotten seamen, be proud.

[wightspirit]

Julie

1917 crew list available at the UK National Archives here: Official Nos: 118183, 118184, 118187, 118188, 118192, 118201, 118202, 118203, 118204,... | The National Archives. (Reference BT99/3338 - crew agreement).
You should also be able to find an account of the sinking here: South West Approach: German Submarines; 1 - 12 March 1917. | The National Archives (Reference ADM137/1312 - German submarines, South West approaches) and here: http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...e/r/r/C4115654 (ADM137/3982 - enemy attacks on merchant shipping)

The registration card with a photo of the holder was not introduced until late in 1918.

Dave W