Seaman's photo

[Julie McLaughlan]

Hello Jullie and welcome,
==you have every reason to be proud of his service.

Crew Agreements are the way to go.

Regards
Hugh

Thanks Hugh. I put in a search request on the TNA website yesterday using the links Dave provided. Hopefully they'll turn up some new information for me

- - - Updated - - -

Julie,If you haven't already got one of her is a photo of the SS Dunbarmoor. Also the Memorial at Tower Hill Memorial Merchant Navy

.

Hope they are of some help to you.

John

Thank you John. I visited the memorial at Tower Hill a few years ago with my family on a trip to England

[wightspirit]

Julie

Re post No. 20 - yes, I think it was mandatory post-November 1918, so anyone joining thereafter would have a registration card, and the best place to obtain a very good colour copy is from Southampton City Archives. As regards the records at the UK National Archives for the 1917 crew agreement, and particulars of attacks on merchant shipping and German submarines, with the references already given, I estimate, as a rough guide, that there would be something like 20 or so pages of A3 size documents. The most rewarding part of all this is to visit the National Archives yourself if you can to see the original documents and take copies. Alternatively, for a rather expensive fee, the staff there will copy them for you. Other than that, use a professional researcher to do the work on your behalf (possibly less expensive) or, if you're very lucky, someone on this site might be able to do it for you. There's not much doubt that the records contained in the ADM references will shed a great deal of light on what actually took place. Finally, you could place a request on uboat.net under WW1 forums, to ask if anyone could supply an extract from the log of the U-boat responsible, which would complete the picture.

Dave W

[Hugh]

So Dave if I have another MN ancestor who died in 1920, I assume he would most likely have had one of these ID holders? Were they mandatory for everyone after 1918, or only new recruits, or was it more of an at will thing if you had already been serving for many years?

The CR 10 card was introduced in 1918 but only for three years, being discontinued in favour of a CR 1 card in December 1921, the photo was dropped. Your ancestor who died in 1920 may well have a surviving ID card photo. If you wish to give his name date and place of birth I can take a look for you.

Regarding crew agreements, visiting Kew is the best option for obtaining records as their online research service is expensive and cumbersome. Any files not specifically named to an individual such as crew agreements will be relatively expensive. Also you would need to be specific and ask for the last crew agreement as 1917 would cover all the voyages the ship made in that year. Howerver, as has been pointed out the ship was lost in March of that year so there will be not much in the way of documents to look through.

If Kew is not an option for you I can put you in touch with a researcher who will copy documents for a reasonably cost and much cheaper than TNA Kew.

Regards
Hugh

[Julie McLaughlan]

Because I was having such a hard time navigating the TNA last year, I did use a researcher and he provided me crew lists on a few other MN ancestors I was looking for information on, as well as the South West Approach, Reports of Proceedings, and the U44’s account regarding the Dunbarmoor. Before I paid fees for research again, I was trying to see how much more I could find out on my own. Just the ‘page check request’ I placed at the TNA 2dys ago was 8+ pounds for each search, so I am expecting a hefty fee once they count the pages. Depending on the final fee from TNA, I may decide to look into a researcher again. I live in the USA so a trip to TNA is not possible until the next time I visit my family (possibly late next year, but no plans yet).

In the meantime Hugh, I’d love to take you up on your offer to look into an ID card photo of my other MN ancestor. Here are his details:

Name: James Robert Watson, born in Belfast approx 1860 (father’s name John Watson – don’t know mother’s name)
Married: Henrietta Larkham in Belfast Dec 20, 1880
Died: Nov 13, 1920 (his death cert that was transcribed by a clerk in Ireland where I ordered it from wrote he was “about 50yrs old”, but his burial document {which was filled out by his family} stated his age as 60, so I’m going with 60). He was a widower at the time of his death.
He was Chief Engineer on the SS Moyallon. The ship was in the harbor of Albert Quay, Co. Cork, Ireland. Apparently he fell overboard and died from the “shock of immersion, the result of an accident”, per the death cert. His home address at the time of his death was 5 Greenmount Street, Belfast.

Any info you can provide would be much appreciated

[Julie McLaughlan]

Name: W Wilson?
Age: 29
Birth Year: abt 1881
Birth Place: Belfast
Event Date: 1910
Port of Registry: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ship Name: Indra
Official Number: 106839
Reference Number: 387CRE/436

Marian I've tried looking on Ancestry for this file but before it shows me any records it's prompting me to choose census, BMD, military, etc. When I choose one, it then breaks it down again and prompts me to choose which category from another new list. I looked for a place to search by the reference number but couldn't find one. Which category did you choose to find this on?

[Hugh]

Hi Julie,
Unfortunately there appears to be no CR10 for him held in BT 350. The only other record I can see is a medal card for WW1 but because the medal card has no other personal id information I cannot even be sure its for him.

Medal Card of Watson, James Place of Birth: Belfast Date of Birth: 1860 | The National Archives

Regards
Hugh

[John Albert Evans]

Julie,

The SS Moyallon was first named the War Irwell built in Yard No 262 John Fullerton & Co. Paisley for John Kelly of Belfast, she was launched as the SS Moyallon on 16th April 1919 and sank on 16th September 1924 off Strumble Head carrying a cargo of stones. Sorry but haven't been ablbe to find a picture of her, hope it may be of some help to you.

John

[Julie McLaughlan]

Medal Card of Watson, James Place of Birth: Belfast Date of Birth: 1860 | The National Archives

I know it's a long shot, but I got really excited when I saw this! I have been so focused on William Wilson being killed during the war that I had never even thought of James Watson having been in the war too. I downloaded the file, hoping I might see something to help me connect it to my family. I'm so disappointed that the office didn't fill out the 2nd page (or it might be the reverse side) of the card has that small line at the very top stating, "sent to.....". This could have been the link I needed! I'm bummed that it is not more concrete, but so thankful to you for finding it and sharing it with me. I'm going to keep it on the backburner until I can find more proof he's mine

[Julie McLaughlan]

Julie,

The SS Moyallon was first named the War Irwell built in Yard No 262 John Fullerton & Co. Paisley for John Kelly of Belfast, she was launched as the SS Moyallon on 16th April 1919 and sank on 16th September 1924 off Strumble Head carrying a cargo of stones. Sorry but haven't been ablbe to find a picture of her, hope it may be of some help to you.

John

Very useful information John. Thank you for looking

[Julie McLaughlan]

The researcher I hired last year informed me he could find no surviving crewlists for the Moyallon (I assume through TNA). Is it possible that the John Kelly company would have these on file somewhere since they were the owners of the ship?