Travel times: London to Amsterdam

[cappy]

allurity 1959 old man and one mate .....just off the tyne old man had a heart attack......remember problems as old man did his own pilotage .....mate was dropping apples cant remember pilot or not cappy........one engineer two firemen ......

[j.sabourn]

Ivan.. What do you think the deadweight of a 200 ton gross ship is. That is what I consider a proper coaster to be. As regards you being responsible for the manning of such vessels, in 1958 this was the responsibility of the Shipping Master at the shipping office and not any employees of the shipowner. What JA describes is what we all have done at one time or another coasting on deep sea ships. totally different to a coaster. In fact the company I was in in 1958 used to put an extra mate on board, which you would find hard to find now. I first got the impression the lady was writing a novel about a coaster, I maybe wrong and she may want more info. I would suggest if she already hasn't, to read the Para Handy books which to me are a good line to the coasting trade of years ago. In British ships until their closure all crewing was done through the British Shipping Federation for British Registered ships. Cheers John Sabourn

[j.sabourn]

3 main pilot families on Tyne then cappy the Purvis family being one of them. Was talking by email to one last year. They did 4 years on the cutter then went to sea for seatime for their 2nd. Mates cert. before going back onto pilotage. One of them did his seatime with Runcimans. There may have been others. My kids did a family tree some years ago and one of the pilot families was related, now hear this.... from North Shields. Born and bred in the jungle area. Cheers John Sabourn

[cappy]

pilots on the tyne and I suppose elsewhere was like the mafia.......in south shields the same families had it tied up for years until recently ...and I believe even now some of the old pilot families are still there ......same as foyboatmen and tugboatmen......passed from father to son regards cappy

[Ivan Cloherty]

Ivan.. What do you think the deadweight of a 200 ton gross ship is. That is what I consider a proper coaster to be. As regards you being responsible for the manning of such vessels, in 1958 this was the responsibility of the Shipping Master at the shipping office and not any employees of the shipowner. . Cheers John Sabourn

John, as a Supt it was your duty as an employee of a shipping company to ensure that all the ships under your control were manned to regulations whether or not you were signing on or off before a Shipping Master, as on the coast the Master also signed men on and off on an ENG2 and it was your duty to ensure that the correct men were presented to the Master to enable him to comply with regulations. I knew what my duties were, I did it long enough and my memory ain't that bad. Perhaps you didn't read it right, as I did say the vessels under my control and not ALL vessels.

As for deadweight of a 200 grt ship this varied greatly depending upon the construction and for what purpose and trade built. As for a proper coaster being 200 dwt (or 200 grt) then I think that you do many men a dis-service if you think that the larger vessels were not coasters in the proper sense, to me the coasting men were the proper navigators in every respect whether they be on a 200 grt or a 1599.99 grt vessels

[cappy]

get on the hatch you two and have a proper go ......mind it would be something two old captains sparring up .......but watch js hes got a dirty left......ding round one......love cappy

[j.sabourn]

Ivan I am well aware of shipping office duties. As regards backlash on anything on the vessel it was and still is the ultimate responsibility of the Master. The 30 odd ships I have been master on in the case as you state, I must have been wasting my time. As mate on deep sea ships it was normal for him to accept or decline crew members sent by federation. The master had ultimate responsibility for crew and passengers and unless they have changed the law that's the way it is. The company can send who they like but under the system that I was brought up with they had to be cleared through the federation and go through the procedure as stated. Legally any person on board the ship was there at the masters invitation and this included everyone, customs were automatically admitted otherwise they would have issued a warrant the same as any government department. The masters I sailed with and learnt from did not ask the permission of the owners for any decision they made, not like nowadays. Cheers John Sabourn Ivan it was an ENG 2 A for paying off abroad I think. JS

[j.sabourn]

Don't know what hes on about. Must be that ingrowing toe nail. I have never said anything detrimental against coasters. The only thing I could say was that in 1957 went for a job on a collier, when they found out I had a ticket knocked me back. Was after an ABs job. NE coast agreement. That was the federation never did get as far as the ship. Cheers John Sabourn

[cappy]

do know for a fact a old man could pay an abs wage......to anyone but there rating still stayed the same at the pool wether he be a boy or junior rating....he went back to that rating at the pool .....for instance the cook went adrift and me at that time ass steward was paid cooks wages on two short runs home trade.....I had no bot cooks ticket but as we had about9 or 10 hands it was a easy no ...ps I loved my cooking ...it was a weekly boat

[j.sabourn]

Cappy already stated in a previous post, when on certain mate and master ships have promoted an Ab to Bosun./ 2nd. Mate. As master on a ship you can do this, the same as you can (or used to be able to do ) disrate someone. Ivan talks about superintendents, its years since I saw one apart from Eng. Supers. Nowadays they are Crew managers and do not of had to have been at sea. Soon there will be no one who has been to sea, as previous other posts they have already started on the ships themselves. In 2002 they wanted me to stay on to 70, it sounds very nice but believe me you would finish up a gibbering idiot and probably get no retirement as such. The days of Shipping masters and signing on before are long gone, shipping is nowhere like it used to be. In 1986 I was made redundant in N. Sea was the usual slump in oil, approached a crewing agency offered me a job as master or mate if wanted on a 3000 ton tanker carrying fish oil from Iceland to Liverpool, the wages were terrible and turned down. That ship was lost on Christmas day when I would of been there, no survivors and in broad daylight, hit some rock. No drink involved as did autopsys on some of the bodies recovered. There are jobs if you are desperate for money, retirement is better. Cheers John Sabourn