Discharge Book numbering from WW 2 to 1972 for British seamen

[Gregor Ross]

Hi Ivan,

I don't think the 2nd Mate was over concerned about his own safety. He called the Captain to the bridge as he felt we should be reducing speed. When the Captain refused the 2nd Mate said "OK - up to you - but I am having no part of it" - and he left the bridge.

Standing on the bridge you couldn't really see the foc'sle . The first thing you saw ....... this huge wall of water reflected in the forward masthead light, it would rush past the forward mast, go black, and a second or two later you would see it again reflected in the mainmast steaming light. It would then go black again for an instant before the wall of white water would smash into the bridge windows. That was just as the bow was digging into the next trough. The view was then obscured whilst the water ran off the bridge windows. Once the run-off cleared the bridge windows the only thing you could see was ....... this huge wall of water reflected in the forward masthead light............

This went on for the entire watch . The ship had a service speed of 21 Knts. At full ahead we were managing 7-9knts over the ground. All I could do was hang on to the handles either side of the radar display. It was extremely difficult, and dangerous, to try and move around too much

[Gregor Ross]

JS Thanks for this - apologies for the delay in replying, I don't look into the forum every day.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to any of my father's personal effects (family issues after my mother died). I do remember seeing his indentures back in the 70's but can't remember any details other than the bit about visiting "houses of ill repute". I don't know the ship names.

Interesting that bit about 2 year voyages. I have this uncertain memory of my grandmother telling me that she had no idea where my father was for his first two years of service (1939-1941) They were apparently allowed to write home but not give any details about the ship's whereabouts. Somewhere around that time my grandmother met a young man in the street that was serving with the RNVR "Hello Mrs Ross, saw your son George down in Kingston, Jamaica last month, he was looking well.........."

[Ivan Cloherty]

.

Standing on the bridge you couldn't really see the foc'sle . The first thing you saw ....... this huge wall of water reflected in the forward masthead light, it would rush past the forward mast, go black, and a second or two later you would see it again reflected in the mainmast steaming light. It would then go black again for an instant before the wall of white water would smash into the bridge windows. That was just as the bow was digging into the next trough. The view was then obscured whilst the water ran off the bridge windows. Once the run-off cleared the bridge windows the only thing you could see was ....... this huge wall of water reflected in the forward masthead light............

This went on for the entire watch . The ship had a service speed of 21 Knts. At full ahead we were managing 7-9knts over the ground. All I could do was hang on to the handles either side of the radar display. It was extremely difficult, and dangerous, to try and move around too much

Well lets face it the Master is in charge of the vessel and undoubtedly had more experience than the 2nd mate and knew his vessel's capabilities,

I've sailed on ships with seas breaking over the midships bridge, I've sailed on a six hatch vessel bridge aft that used to bury the first two hatches under the water in the North Pacific. What you described is normal passage experiences in North Atlantic and North Pacific

When you say 'We' were managing etc etc , is that you personally, if so it surely cannot be the only time you experienced such weather.

[j.sabourn]

In a post sometime ago , so you probably never sighted an apprentice of the same period as myself never saw home for 5 years. he also lived in the Tyneside area. The ship remained in the Far East area . After the first 2 years the Articles of Agreement were closed and the crew flown home, he had to stay. the next 2 years similar . on the 3rd set of Articles the ship returned to the UK and came off he was signed on as AB by this time. I met him in Canada a few years ago where he lives now. The years money on ABs wages saw him through his certificate. JS

[Des Taff Jenkins]

John.
When one considers the importance of the MN to Britain before, during, and after the war you would think that anyone sitting for a certificate would have at least had their accommodation and food paid for, either by the shipping Co or at least the Govt, I know I'm climbing trees here but it would have helped enormously in those days of frugal pay.
Des

[j.sabourn]

Des , the only reason why most mates and engineers signed on A. agreements as against B agreement was that one got paid 12 weeks certificate pay whilst ashore for such. The losses were overtime and gains a
couple of quid above BOT salary. The company I worked for wanted me to claim the dole also which they would they would have deducted from wages before paying me. I told them if they wanted it they Go and collect it just pay my salary as
Per normal. With being no overtime they were amply rewarded in. Fact you were putting others with losses the
ones who did get you were doing it instead. Some say the good old. Shipowner others. Tell the truth. JS
The common title for A Agreement was Company servant and were even signed on as such in the Articles of Agreement if my memory is correct. Or just CS after your job title . JS

[cappy]

Dont think i ever thought of the income factor when going to sea .......it was the seeing foriegn countries ....adventure ........honky tonk bars told to me by other older buddies ...and three meals a day ...but i had no ambitions to be other than a face in the crowd .....a future career never came into it.....R683532

[j.sabourn]

That’s what the shipowner relied on Cappy a cheap labour source. The sea was not a place for a man with a family to support unless you got into the higher paid ranks . The maritime law at the time you were at sea if the shipowner wanted to use it, the maximum allotment you could leave was 50% of your basic wage , so if you were on 30 pounds a month . Was 15 pounds . However this disappeared when seamen with bank accounts appeared and the unions to back them up and all monies went to the bank.This must have been after 1962 . When I was first married my wife had to stand in a queue at the shipping office to receive housekeeping allotment every month. So just think your away for a year pzzing it up , getting logged and fined ,the owners outlay on salary’s was only 50%if he so desired , so he had all your money earning in his account earning interest . You get home all ready to carry on with the good times find your pay off pretty minimal but hey had a good time. Due to being strapped for cash have to return to sea sooner than hoped , but hey the ship owner if he could of would probably of thanked you for returning early and fully expect a repeat performance to enhance his own cash flow. We all did it as single men , lived like millionaires for the day , the rest of the year was in the lap of the Gods . Cheers JS

[Jim R Christie]

Well lets face it the Master is in charge of the vessel and undoubtedly had more experience than the 2nd mate and knew his vessel's capabilities,

I've sailed on ships with seas breaking over the midships bridge, I've sailed on a six hatch vessel bridge aft that used to bury the first two hatches under the water in the North Pacific. What you described is normal passage experiences in North Atlantic and North Pacific

Burying hatches under green water at any time is the mark of a total fool of a Master who is recklessly endangering his ship and his crew. If those hatch covers give way it could well be all over.
When it's that bad the only sensible option is to heave to.
The Bencruachan incident is a prime example of going far too fast for the conditions, they were however lucky enough to get away with it that time. Plenty have not.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Burying hatches under green water at any time is the mark of a total fool of a Master who is recklessly endangering his ship and his crew. If those hatch covers give way it could well be all over.
When it's that bad the only sensible option is to heave to.
.

Well the Master had been Master longer than I had been alive, so one can only assume he knew what he was doing and the sensible option was being enacted, we were a 15 knot vessel on RPM for 6/7 knots to maintain steerage. For non seafarers that is being hove-to

FWE.