Seaman's card and book for South African

[John Kennard]

Hi.

I hope some one could help me on here. I need to get a seaman's card and discharge book. I know it is easy to get and all that, but the thing is I'm a South African, and applied at the MCA for this and was told I'm not British so they cant give me this.

If any one know of an alternative for this, all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Ivan Cloherty]

If the MCA cannot help then there may be little help that we can give, but it may help us to help you if you tell us

(i) Why do you want a seamans Discharge Book
(ii) Why you think you are entitled to one
(iii) what sea service you have to support the above

Ivan

[John Kennard]

Hi Ivan.

I served In the British Army for six years and just got out. I got a new job with a British company in providing Maritime security on board vessels. This company now wants me to have the seaman's card and book.

This is aparently what the shipping companys requaier of them.

I never said that I was intiteld to any of thouse. I just wanted to know if any body mabe had any Idea as to what other options would have been afalible to me.

I have got my ENG1 Medical, STCW95 and SSO.

thanks for your reply.

[Tony Morcom]

Surely your new employers should be able to assist as it would have been pointless giving you a job you couldn't get the required paperwork for Something seems a bit suspect to me I'm afraid.

[Ivan Cloherty]

John

Doubt you could be issued with a British Seamans book, but there are a lot of seafarers serving aboard British ships who have seamens books from their own countries. Have you tried approaching the South African Embassy for assistance.

As Tony said in post#4, surely the prospective employer should do everything to assist you, especially as being an armed guard (presumably) aboard ships is a new category.

There are better brains than mine on this site who may be able to advise further if your enquiry is genuine, but I do think you should make your Embassy your first port of call, although this may be new to them also.

Also try the Dutch shipping companies as they are also now taking further precautions by employing ex military personnel and your SA credentials may be of some benefit

[Neil Morton]

How come a security guard would need seamans certification?

[John Kennard]

Firstly I would like to correct you!

A security guard is some one you would find working in your local Tesco walking around and standing day dreaming all day, looking at his/her watch wishing his time away so that he can go home.( I've got nothing against security guards. they got a job to do to.)

How ever, us the maritime security operators served in the British Army (Most special forces background!)and has been on a minimum of two hostile environment operational tours, to places you would not even want to speak about when you drunk!

The reason why we need this is because shipping company's want to see this along with our eng1 medical, stcw95, sso and some other stuff I cant tell you about.

After all we are there to work on board the vessel to make sure the ship is safe and secure, not just from pirates but in all aspect.

So pleas don't confuse me as a security guard.

I am on here to find help.

---------- Post added at 12:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 AM ----------

Tony, Ivan

There is nothing suspect with this I can assure you.

When I got given this job it was still a brand new thing. The maritime security is still finding its feet and is still ironing out some creases.

When I got the job there was no requirement for the card and book it is only recently that the shipping company's came out with this.

When i got the job I had a spouse visa in the UK this enable me to come and go and work freely as I pleas.

How ever to get a seaman's card and discharge book I need to be British or have the right of abode in the UK. this is were my problem comes in. I am trying to resolve this problem by my self, as I am worried that if I tell my company this they will tell me sorry, and give my job to the next person.

It is a bit of a complicated one I know. Thanks for the advice ill look in to the Dutch company's.

[robpage]

From the web site ofg the MCA
Application for discharge books
15.—(1) Subject to the provisions of these Regulations, a person who satisfies the conditions specified in paragraph (2) of this regulation shall apply for a discharge book within 7 days of satisfying those conditions.

(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are that the person—
(a) is not exempted from the requirements of section 1 of the Act (which relates to crew agreements) by regulations made under subsection (5)(b) of that section; and
(b) either—

	(i) is employed as a seaman in a ship registered in the United Kingdom otherwise than in an employment specified in regulation 16(3) below; or
	(ii) being a citizen of the United Kingdom and colonies, has been discharged abroad after being so employed and has arrived in the United Kingdom within 6 months of being discharged, unless, at the time he arrived in the United Kingdom, he did not intend to take such employment; and

(c) is not the holder of a discharge book issued in accordance with these Regulations; and
(d) has not been required by the Secretary of State, under regulation 27(1) of these Regulations to surrender a discharge book issued in accordance with these Regulations.

16.—(1) Regulation 15 shall not apply to a person if he holds a document—

	(a) containing substantially the same information as a discharge book; and
	(b) which has been issued to him by or under the authority of the government of a country specified in Schedule 4; and
	(c) of which he has not ceased to be regarded as the holder by that government.

(2) Regulation 15 shall not apply to a person in the employment of the Crown who is not ordinarily employed as a master or seaman.

(3) For the purposes of regulation 15 no regard shall be had to employment in a fishing vessel or in a ship exempted from the requirements of section 1 of the Act (which relates to crew agreements) by regulations made under subsection (5)(a) of that section.

So you need a letter from your employer stating that you are engaged on a British Flagged vessel to get a discharge book , citizenship does not seem to gett too deep into that one . A British Seamans card though , I don't see why a South African one is not acceptable ,

[John Kennard]

Hi.

Thank you for that. The problem is that I work on divrent vessels all the time (and flag state) so I can see this might be a problem.

The reason why I havent tryed to get a South African seaman's card is that they don't do it (as far as I'm aware) they only do the book and it is the SID that is a biggy with my company.

Thanks for the help though.

[Ivan Cloherty]

John

Keep looking in, someone who may not be online for a couple of days may have some more useful information.

I don't see that working on a different vessels under different flags will be a problem once you have cleared that first elusive hurdle.

You will have to excuse us if we seem a little bit suspicious of someones motives. We have learnt through experience that not all enquiries are genuine and seamens certificates and discharge books have been used illegally sometimes with dire consequences. We have and had no intention of insulting your military service of which you can be justifiably be proud.

What we are doing is trying to protect our profession, so that those still serving at sea, in whatever capacity, can be assured that they are sailing with people they can rely on.At sea you need to rely upon your colleagues as much as you do in the military and being at sea in a hurricane and typhoon is no walk in the park and it is then when it seperates the seaman from the pretenders in dangerous situations. Not all dangerous situations require bullets.

We wish you well in your endeavours and keep looking in, there will be someone with a bright idea, but we fail to see why a prospective employer cannot go that extra mile to assist if you are the calibre of the candidate(s) required.

Also try the Citizens Advice Bureau (and Legal Service who give a 30 minute free consultation), either may be able to steer you in a direction that is not apparent to us.