Fire! Fire! Fire Down Below.

Peter when I lived in the uk my next door neighbour was the retired fire chief of Plymouth and you could be repeating a replica of his words I know apart from fire fighting you have to go into other aspects of any other disaster for saving of life. Most on here have done all the available fire courses available to seafarers, but the knowledge is limited. Can you for instance tell me at what temperature a body will explode ,implode , or jut ignite through spontaneous combustion.I believe I may have asked this on site before but if was answered cannot now remember. If you spent 20 years inspecting offshore vessels for safety why for instance wasn’t every vessel fitted with gas alarms at least, why weren’t sprinkler systems fitted , the list could go on . Did you have any input to changing the at times dangerous levels of safety practiced ,not by seafarers but by those holding the purse strings.
0r were your hands tied which was the usual cry. Cheers JS
PS my neighbour was John Fiddaman you may have known him, been dead a number of years now. jS

#10 Well it proved one point you certainly needed another drill until you got it right . JS

#2 John sorry but I think you have a very jaundiced view about todays seafarers and there ability to operate and sail ships in a professional manner. You are from an era like a lot of us sailed on ships with crews (general cargo/tankers) that perhaps had as many as 45 onboard. If a fire broke out from that crew of 45 I am sure that 20% of that crew would have been under the influence of Alcohol to a certain extent. That would certainly not be the case today as most ships are now dry ships. All companies operate a strict zero tolerance D&A policy. Modern ships are better built and better maintained than ever before. Yes ships crews are now, more than ever ships operators. Vessels are run by computers and electronics or as good as. There is a lot of back up built into ships systems in the event of equipment failures. In my later years on new builds it was practically unheard of for the vessel to lose all electrical power. Gone are the days when an emergency generator could supply just about enough power to illuminate NUC lights. I have been fortunate to have sailed at a time during my 44 year career to see the best and worst of ships crews be they British/European or Asian/Chinese/ African/Caribbean. I have seen crew sizes drop from 45 on General cargo ships down to as little as 14 on 175,000 cubic metre state of the art LNG carriers. Some things may not have changed for the best in todays shipping world. One of the sad things at sea today is loneliness, social life is poor as most just disappear into there cabin at the end of the working day. Yes modern ships are more comfortable , we have excellent gyms and most have swimming pools even Sauna and steam rooms. But for all that I cannot remember the last time I had a game of Cribbage or a darts night or a game of scrabble. Some times I was the only Brit onboard. But for all that most knew there job and roll during an emergency.

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Originally Posted by Ivan Cloherty

During the 70's as a supt, I had to change a Norwegian flag vessel to British flag, what I thought would be an easy job turned out not to be so. Their safety aspects turned out to be much more lax than our own, too many to list here, but some very surprising. Lifeboat adverse launching was only 12 degrees as opposed to our 15 degrees, trying to get that extra 3 degrees incurred some substantial structural alterations. Emergency fire pump (EFP) situated in ER, definitely a no-no in our regs, naturally the EFP lines ran through the ER, again a no-no in UK, so completely new installations required. Fire hoses too short (have to be able to stretch to next hydrant minimum. No emergency exits from oil fired galley. Portholes in most cabins too small to allow emergency egress. Vessel had had alterations previously but no new stability data, no original grain stability data, lots more. including new inclination tests (not cheap) fortunately took the next Scandi flag transfer vessel at building stage, so these things were ironed out easily.But it all shattered an illusion that we held at sea in 50's/70's that Scandinavians were well found vessels,

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Ivan, I can imagine, although not ever been on Norwegian vessel (apart from the Bergen Stavanger ferry) I have been in several Norwegian building yards over the last 20 years and have been astounded by the scant attention given to safety procedures and equipment.
The most notable was at a major platform builder, had been on board a platform under construction all morning when there was an almighty explosion.
It shook the platform and everyone was quite startled and no one knew what was going on, walking round to the side where the noise came from it transpired that in the drydock under construction right next to the platform had decided to blow up a large rock which was causing some issues. No briefing, no warning except a horn blast which no one had a clue about. Trailing cables of domestic quality everywhere, 240v equipment all over etc. etc.

The 15 degree rule brings back memories . Came out of drydock on the Clyde like a balloon no ballast in. Anything above a force 2 and would of floated away .No sooner alongside than the bot or should say.mot man jumped onboard for a lifeboat survey .lifeboat ladders with a 15 degree list the high side would usually be short. My pleas of the ship could not even go to sea without being deeper in the water fell on deaf ears .we had a trip up to Murmansk coming and he agreed as long as I put another 6 rungs in he would release us. We did the voyage and returned to Glasgow and I forgot about the ladders. Who do I see walking along the quay towards the ship was the same surveyor .i grabbed the bosun quick I said get them ladders stretched . I met the mot man at the top of the gangway and started to explain we had bad weather on both passages there and back and was getting the ladders done now. Oh, he said I didn’t come for that , I came to have a cup of tea with you and your wife who had just turned up. He then tried to tell me the advantages of coming into the department . It meant 2 years on reduced pay , so finally stayed at sea. He turned out to be a very nice bloke ,and I had totally misread his intentions. So when 15 degree lists are mentioned he always springs to mind. JS

#14. The Norwegians are or were very protective of their status in the maritime world. I went master on the Nordic Explorer of Norwegian flag , and had to attend the Norwegian Consulate to be interviewed and all the bits and pieces. It’s a pity the British Registry rules didn’t take a leaf out of their book. JS

lewis i read with interest your comments on todays seamen etc ...the
only point that amazes me and can not believe in the statement is a percentage of hands under the influence......on standard vessels of 50s and 60s on 3 cans a night if we were lucky.....your statement of 9 hands at any given time out of 45 under the influence.... i can only state as rubbish.R683532

hi john sabourn
#8 a very serious matter it is indeed, but how come all the fire drills ive been on start on the poop deck and involve the galley.
tom

Lewis obviously you have no idea of the offshore industry. Forget all the excuses of drink related problems , they never existed at sea in the offshore life .ashore yes at sea no . An offshore vessel has a crew of nine and there is no way drink interferes with any job. The crews knew this without any prompting and would not be there the next trip out he would probably leave of his own accord. Offshore work on such vessels as I am referring to depended on having your wits about you and at times sheer brawn .your 25% of 9 would be 6.5 men and a ship could not run on 6.5 men and do what is necessary .deep sea men coming into that industry had to change their outlook on life or just disappear somewhere else. There is no jaundice if you want to,talk safety you have to talk honestly. JS

John I never made a mention of the Offshore industry because it is an industry I never worked in, and that is the very reason I never mentioned it. So please do not try and dig holes in my post as I am referring to deep sea vessels and what one has observed with ones own eyes. I have never sailed with a bigger crowd of Pi-s heads from top to bottom as what sailed in the so called creme de la creme liner lines like Blue Funnel , Glen Line, Bibby line , Elder Dempster.