Suicide and our Armed Forces

[j.sabourn]

I would of thought John there would have been more info. In Oz especially in the eastern states as the best book I read on the occurrence was by a sergeant detective of the Sydney police force I beleive . He took a 3 year sabbatical to write a book the “ Smoking Gun” and appeared to leave no stone upturned. He personally interviewed all those witnesses that were willing to give evidence , and the book was written with credibility to my senses at least . There were no shouts of denial from US authority’s that I heard . It was left up to the reader to make his/her decision as to the authors words and he left it up to the readers after turning all the facts for everyone to see. There were other witnesses that weren’t called to the stand these also were included in his summary . JS

[James Curry]

#39 From what I read of Paisley he was not anti Irish Catholic he just despised all Roman Catholics.

[j.sabourn]

Anyhow the long awaited result on the defamation trial of Ben Robert - Smith V.C is due on June 1st his fight against false accusations of the press which he is fighting , will no doubt cause further friction . Hope it doesn’t cause him further depression ,none of our armed service personel deserve that .JS

[happy daze john in oz]

He was in the army.
Trained to take orders without question, trained to kill if required, trained to lead others in a theatre of war.
So what is the crime?
Said to have killed a man when in action, but was that not what he trained for?l

[j.sabourn]

He was special forces John his soldiering would be a bit off the straight and narrow. In South Shields there was a case , Cappy might remember in the 60s , of a diminutive person being set on by 3 assailants in a pub. What they didn’t know he was special forces , the first one he put his finger inside his mouth and tore half his face off. The other two ran. There was a big case about it but never heard the outcome as was back at sea. I won’t say I have too much knowledge about it but
Have sailed with different nationality’s of the same and they are all extremely fit , maybe not today as they would be 45 years older. My son who is an expert in martial arts and has I think 12 degrees and there’s only 13 in one of them . Goes often to Japan with students to get the Grand Masters approval . His own last one I believe consisted of kneeling blindfolded before him with his bared neck in the appropriate position , when the knife came down he had to roll away , his senses had to be aware of the noise it made before it connected , so if you wear hearing aids I would advice to leave them in and hope for the best. No room for failure one might say. Cheers JS

[Tony Taylor]

He was special forces John his soldiering would be a bit off the straight and narrow. In South Shields there was a case , Cappy might remember in the 60s , of a diminutive person being set on by 3 assailants in a pub. What they didn’t know he was special forces , the first one he put his finger inside his mouth and tore half his face off. The other two ran. There was a big case about it but never heard the outcome as was back at sea. I won’t say I have too much knowledge about it but
Have sailed with different nationality’s of the same and they are all extremely fit , maybe not today as they would be 45 years older. My son who is an expert in martial arts and has I think 12 degrees and there’s only 13 in one of them . Goes often to Japan with students to get the Grand Masters approval . His own last one I believe consisted of kneeling blindfolded before him with his bared neck in the appropriate position , when the knife came down he had to roll away , his senses had to be aware of the noise it made before it connected , so if you wear hearing aids I would advice to leave them in and hope for the best. No room for failure one might say. Cheers JS

I knew someone of that size, he flattened 3 big guys from the Horsley Hill gang in the COUNTY at Westoe one night. He wasn't in the army, just learned his skills in Hartlepool - Ropners apprentice (no names no pack drill).

[James Curry]

Sometimes a certain regiment show a tendency to get a bit trigger happy and not always in a war situation.

1st battalion of the Parachute regiment being one such regiment.

The Ballymurphy massacre was a series of incidents between 9 and 11 August 1971, in which the 1st Battalion, Parachute Regiment of the British Army killed at least nine civilians in Ballymurphy, Belfast, Northern Ireland, as part of Operation Demetrius


Thirteen people were killed and 15 people wounded after members of the Army's 1st Battalion Parachute Regiment opened fire on civil rights demonstrators in the Bogside - a predominantly Catholic part of Londonderry - on Sunday 30 January 1972.

Mind you the same regiment 2 Para also paid a high price for the above attrocities.
The IRA murdered 18 British Soldiers same day as Lord Mountbatten was murdered 27th August 1979.

The Warrenpoint ambush or Narrow Water ambush (also called the Warrenpoint massacre or Narrow Water massacre)was a guerrilla attack by the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) on 27 August 1979. The IRA’s South Armagh Brigade ambushed the British Army with two large roadside bombs at Narrow Water Castle (near Warrenpoint) in Northern Ireland.

The above mentioned attacks took place in the United Kingdom, not in some far off land or in a war,zone.

[cappy]

I think john s sailed with a hard man on the annual run to churchill or somee other iced up port with a guy called kenny chow as his bosun ....dont think many argued with him a much respected shields bosun ....a guy called darcy lynch was probably the best of them ......the son of a fairground boxer from jarrow if i recall he just said i will give you two hard slaps then broke your ribs.....then flored you .....he died in BA coming acroos the road with a beer in him ...a tram hit him full on ...as he turned and saw it it was said he hit the front of the tram with a left and right ....and put two holes in the tram the shields gazette was to right an article on him .....but i believe it was his sister banned them.....they were a different breed of guys but in many cases were sometimes needed ....R683532

[Doc Vernon]

Anyhow the long awaited result on the defamation trial of Ben Robert - Smith V.C is due on June 1st his fight against false accusations of the press which he is fighting , will no doubt cause further friction . Hope it doesn’t cause him further depression ,none of our armed service personel deserve that .JS

Was just reading about this JS, and i (My View Only) still say that he has been Crucfied as to his actions!
This was a Man at War, with all the Training of such, and he carried out his duties, thus the Medal Award. Now they want to reduce him to Criminal standings! (Although nothing as yet has been done) thank goodness!
He is one of Australia's highest Decorated Army Personel, and he so deserves it too!

So for mine , just leave the Man and let him be! I hope that he does win his case against all, and that he walks away not only with a clean record, but also a tidy Sum , as he has lost quite a few Years. Gosh! the cost so far for the court case is astonishing to say the least! They show a figure of some $25,000,000 Over the Top costing these days !
$25 Million Dollars Later, Ben Robert-Smith's Defamation Hearing Ends - B&T (bandt.com.au)

[j.sabourn]

#48. Cappy Kenny Chow sailed with me when I was mate on the Warkworth and was well pleased he was there , he was a continuation of the type of seamen I was used to sailing out of the Tyne . In my earlier life my teachers were the likes of Septimus Kincaid bosun and Axel Linberg the Norwegian Carpenter an adopted son of South Shields these too were people to look up to and set the standards of seamanship very high . The mate who relieved me in Smiths North Shields a Bob Storey , and passed over the ship in the Jungle , were all people of high standing , Bob was torpedoed on a Halifax convoy at 15 years of age and finished up in a lifeboat with his father who was master off another torpedoed ship neither at the time knew the other was there , he received a clip on the ear from same for being there when he should have been home at school .Think it was Marian who traced that Axel Linberg had received the BEM for holding on to a body over the side of a lifeboat for a number of days .They were all characters in our lives and made us what we are today. They should all be remembered . It was a few trips before you were on the Avonmoor that I sailed with Seppy and Axel never to be forgotten , especially at the impressionable age of 17.. Cheers JS