Unlawfull

[happy daze john in oz]

After an extensive enquiry it has been announced today that during Australian troops participation in the war in Afghanistan some 35 local persons have been unlawfully killed.
Nothing new here one would say, such events have no doubt happened in most wars.

But how do soldiers who commit such known killings live with them selves?

[j.sabourn]

Unlawful killing can mean a number of things regarding the cessation of life of the victim. My Uncle a long time dead had to live with the killing of civilians who were run down on the highways and byeways of the retreat to Dunkirk. The order was stop for no one on streets filled with civilians retreating also. The present situation could at the worse be retribution taken by certain individuals for acts of murder who would never see justice in any case, and could be alongside a crime of passion as the French put it. No one will know until the trial. Myself I would let sleeping dogs lie. That is what war is the killing of the enemy. To think it is honourable one has to stretch the imagination. There are no Marquis of Queensbury Rules in outright war. One could in some cases just be in the wrong place at the wrong time. To have the present situation with Australian Troops should be an internal affair and not for gossip makers like the Press who will get every inch of it put out in any form they want. JS

[happy daze john in oz]

Further to my original post which was hot off the press.

It now appears some 39 were unlawfully killed over what could be a ten year period.

All were non combatants, some shot others tortchered, with many abused.

One piece of film shows a civilian being kicked off his motor bike and that then thrown down a hill.

There is every possibility some of the offenders will face criminal charges under the war crimes act.

The P.M. has been forced to make an apology to the people of Afghanistan.

[happy daze john in oz]

Victoria, war of some kind has been going on since cocky was in the egg.
The killing of civilians and non combatants has also been a part of it.
Not the right thing to do but it does go on.

The vital difference this time is that they got caught.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Perhaps if all these ambulance chasing lawyers had seen action in Afghanistan, they may have a different perspective. No matter how well trained you are you will be affected by seeing your comrades castrated, headless body hanging from a bridge. Our troops are already fighting with one hand tied behind their backs, they are not allowed to open fire even if they see a bunch of Afghans armed with RPG's etc etc, or planting IEDs' in the road until they have been fired upon themselves, the same rules apply to fighter and helicopter crews, by then it may be too late, especially in an RPG situation.

So many claims by traumatised Afghans have been made in British Courts by ambulance chasing lawyers financed by public money, some lawyers have been jailed or struck off for falsifying events and it was proved that the claimants were not in the location of the alleged offences.

Walk in another mans shoes before passing judgement.

And don't give me any crap about 'we are better than they are' and show humanity, because they can't even spell the word, or know of its existence and would laugh in your face, as they chopped your head off.

[vic mcclymont]

If your lawyers are like ours, unscrupulous then the squaddies are in for a rough ride.
Some UK solicitors were paying local tribesmen to make false allegations about UK servicemen.
The solicitors never give up, they hound the squaddies force numerous investigations claiming that they have uncovered new evidence.
Every time our troops go into action maybe they should second one or two of the ambulance chasing lawyers to the front line.
Vic

[Keith Tindell]

I remember not so long back a squaddie in Afghanistan , had been in a fire fight, and after going into the area found one of the bas***** lying injured on the ground, and blew him away. As i recall he was prosecuted, but i cannot remember his sentence. I remember thinking at the time, don't blame him one bit, this bas**** had been firing to kill the squaddie moment before. We are training these guys to do a job, this job cannot be done by being the old English gentleman school, kt

[Tony Taylor]

Unlawful killing can mean a number of things regarding the cessation of life of the victim. My Uncle a long time dead had to live with the killing of civilians who were run down on the highways and byeways of the retreat to Dunkirk. The order was stop for no one on streets filled with civilians retreating also. The present situation could at the worse be retribution taken by certain individuals for acts of murder who would never see justice in any case, and could be alongside a crime of passion as the French put it. No one will know until the trial. Myself I would let sleeping dogs lie. That is what war is the killing of the enemy. To think it is honourable one has to stretch the imagination. There are no Marquis of Queensbury Rules in outright war. One could in some cases just be in the wrong place at the wrong time. To have the present situation with Australian Troops should be an internal affair and not for gossip makers like the Press who will get every inch of it put out in any form they want. JS

It is common knowledge that the Afghan Taliban or whatever their title was, have killed huge numbers of their own countrymen with their indiscriminate bombings, never mind terrorising and torturing whole communities into submission to their will,

- - - Updated - - -

Unlawful killing can mean a number of things regarding the cessation of life of the victim. My Uncle a long time dead had to live with the killing of civilians who were run down on the highways and byeways of the retreat to Dunkirk. The order was stop for no one on streets filled with civilians retreating also. The present situation could at the worse be retribution taken by certain individuals for acts of murder who would never see justice in any case, and could be alongside a crime of passion as the French put it. No one will know until the trial. Myself I would let sleeping dogs lie. That is what war is the killing of the enemy. To think it is honourable one has to stretch the imagination. There are no Marquis of Queensbury Rules in outright war. One could in some cases just be in the wrong place at the wrong time. To have the present situation with Australian Troops should be an internal affair and not for gossip makers like the Press who will get every inch of it put out in any form they want. JS

It is common knowledge that the Afghan Taliban or whatever their title was, have killed huge numbers of their own countrymen with their indiscriminate bombings, never mind terrorising and torturing whole communities into submission to their will,

[Doc Vernon]

Very difficult situation this one ,as said Troops are trained to carry out all kinds of duties, and Wartime a lot can and does happen

I have a short experience of this when in the FFL, and killing was part of the duties that one at times just had to carry out no matter what. Very very hard on many Soldiers, which i can tell you leaves one with very bad memories after . War is no game and is something that is thrown on to you in a short time. Your Training gives you that instinct to do things that normally you would never in your life have thought that you would be capable of.
Yes there are mistakes and also things done over and above what normally should be, but remember that all things done are in the Spur of the moment, and one does not really have time to think.

My dear late Brother also had very horrible experiences in the Belgium Congo Years ago, when serving with Col, Mike Hoare having to execute many that were caught and dropped into Trenches and shot at point Blank range.

This later when he finished his Two stints up there resulted in his Shooting himself in the Head. This was to me the most devastating of things that could ever have happened to me and of course my Family, Mother Father and younger Sister.

Yes War is a terrible thing in more ways than one !

Sorry for the rant
Cheers

So think of the Lads here in Aussie, who have to live with what they did!
Thats all from me on this, brings back terrible memories!

[Keith Tindell]

Yes, understand where you are coming from on that one Doc, best left alone, kt