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Thread: Unlawfull

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Unlawfull

    Latest news, some ten soldiers have been given termination notices saying they must give reason why they should not be dismissed.

    So far no charges have been laid, no trial or enquiry yet here they are in this state.

    Could be an attempt by the gov to placate the rulers of Afghanistan, who knows.

    All this on the say so of a few, why, it was a war situation and odd things happen there.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

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    John Strange R737787
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  3. #32
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    Default Re: Unlawfull

    Australia as applicable to our military. Firstly, let me provide a little history on the disgraceful show trial that convicted General Yamashita.

    General Yamashita (above), the ‘Tiger of Malaysia’ was hanged on 23rd February, 1946, for crimes committed by his soldiers in the defence of the Philippines. It is important to note that Yamashita was not accused of personally committing any crime, nor could it be proven that he even knew of the atrocities committed by any of the 360,000 soldiers under his command. Yamashita took command of 14th Army only 10-days before the American invasion. Yet, after the war ended MacArthur had him court-martialled for ‘failing in his duty as commander of the Japanese forces’ by not preventing massacres of civilians in Manila.

    His defence lawyer, Col. Harry E. Clark, Sr. argued that Yamashita:

    … is not charged with having done something, but simply with having been the commander. American jurisprudence recognises no such principle so far as military personnel are concerned. (and the key point he made was) No one would even suggest that the commanding general of an American occupation force becomes a criminal every time an American soldier violates the law.’ (author’s emphasis)

    Due to a lack of communications capability, Yamashita did not have effective control of his army from the time he arrived to take command. The American landings quickly broke the 14th Army into three separate areas. When the war ended, Yamashita surrendered the Shobu Group in northern Luzon, but was convicted of the crimes committed by the independent Shimbu Group in Manila. The U.S. Supreme Court upheld the decision (7-2) that:

    ‘ … a commander can be held accountable for crimes committed by his troops even if he did not order them, did not know about them or did not have the means to stop them.’

    I find this principle totally illogical but wonderfully useful for my purposes! Read the following twice and very carefully as it is the essence of this article. The Yamashita Standard states that:

    The highest ranking officer is accountable for, and should be prosecuted and convicted of the crimes of every officer and soldier under his command, even if he/she is unaware of that the crime, or was aware and actually gave orders to stop it. Ignorance of the actions of his/her subordinates and failed attempts to stop them are not a defence.[x]

    Well, that seems clear. Find any soldier who committed a war crime during the eleven years our Army was in Afghanistan and the most senior commander in Afghanistan at that time (and probably right up the hierarchy to the Chief of the Defence Force) is just as guilty as the soldier.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
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  5. #33
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    Default Re: Unlawfull

    Further to my last post.
    It appears that an ABC reporter is mainly responsible for all of this.
    He has written a book based on his experiences in Afghanistan while with the ADF.

    In one section he speaks of seeing a soldier taking a civilian behind a shed, then hears a gun shot but said he did not see any one shot??

    This is some of the basis of his claims that civilians were killed or mistreated.

    It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, war is brutal and often it is take no prisoners.
    My thanks to John S in WA for the info he forwarded to me.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

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    John Strange R737787
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    Default Re: Unlawfull

    John during my time with working for the MOD The first time an Admiral was choppered onto the ship to pin a medal on one of the matelots it was all strange to me. I asked another matelot what is that for. The reply was 10 years of undiscovered crime. Any Australian merchant seaman can receive a similar gong for 15 years of undiscovered crime, I have 3 of them and are known as the Australian MN Service Cross .All these ribbons and others will if these soldiers be found guilty , plus all pension rights be forfeited. JS
    Last edited by j.sabourn; Today at 05:29 AM.
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    Default Re: Unlawfull

    I believe these guys were witnesses not actual persons who are accused of doing the deeds. These guys are accused of not reporting what they're alleged to have seen.
    It seems to be going higher up the chain of command asking why they didn't do anything about it etc.

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  10. #36
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    Default Re: Unlawfull

    According to one report has been going on for about ten years??

    How come it only comes to light now?
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
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    Default Re: Unlawfull

    There is talk of all the medals and ribbons for this conflict should be withdrawn. If that is the case, they should remove all medals and citations for the RAAF as they took part in carpet bombings in WW2 which killed millions. Also Army and navy as they engaged in long range heavy gunnery which also killed thousands. Modern warfare is not about blitzkrieg etc but small very mobile groups using hit and run tactics. If the troops are to be prosecuted, they will not get many recruits and will then have to rely on mercenaries who they will have no control over, and they will plunder, pillage and rape to their hearts content, and no government control.

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  13. #38
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    Default Re: Unlawfull

    If they go past certain limits, it will certainly make a mockery of even the highest awards for valour in the field. As there is no such thing as a clear killing such as a duel at dawn with pistols drawn at 50 paces. As said originally if the armed forces have problems with their members it should not be common knowledge put out by the media. It is Army business and should be handled by army lawyers , all they are accomplishing at the present is an open Pandora’s box of media delights. The prejudices are already clearly showing. The Judge Advocates Office is the place for any so called misconduct and they should be judged by their peers, and not civilian peers in the first instance. They have already been seen as guilty by certain people and those people should be ashamed of themselves. JS
    Last edited by j.sabourn; Today at 06:57 AM.
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    Default Re: Unlawfull

    #31.. John part of an infrantrymans training with the bayonet during our era. Was to charge at a swinging sack of hay , shouting and screaming obscenities at it in the hope of scaring the living daylights out of him, and also to give yourelf Dutch courage and put your mind in a state of turmoil so your target who you hoped to kill was not going to alter your efforts in doing so. Today they would probably be put on a charge for swearing and using bad language. Best today for those considering an army career to think of an alternative as cricket, which supposedly or usd to be a gentleman’s sport. JS
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