memories

[Colin Pook]

Hello Army boys. First time I have posted to you.

When my father was C.Q.M.S, stationed at Oteley Park Camp in Ellesmere, almost every day that the camp band were practising their music, they would play LILLYBURLERO, (is that spelt right)? and I understood that that piece of music was the R.E.M.E. march past tune. Eventually dad retired from the army, and I never heard that tune again till last Saturday when I watched the film Raid on Rommel when it was played several times. Obviously it brought back memories of my younger days, except, whilst still a kid in school, we were taught a song that contained the words---SEVENTEEN TIMES AS HIGH AS THE MOON, sung to the tune of LILLYBURLERO.

Can any one throw any light as to the origin of that music, and, or, a connection to the nursrey rhyme sung to that tune?

Best regards to you all,

Colin.

[robpage]

Lillibullero (also sometimes spelled Lillibulero or Lilliburlero) is a march that seems to have been known at the time of the English Civil War. According to the BBC, it "started life as a jig with Irish roots, whose first appearance seems to be in a collection published in London in 1661 entitled 'An Antidote Against Melancholy', where it is set to the words 'There was an old man of Waltham Cross'." The lyrics generally said to be by Thomas, Lord Wharton were set to the tune of an older satirical ballad.

The most popular lyrics refer to the Williamite war in Ireland 1689-91, which arose out of the Glorious Revolution. In this episode the Catholic King James II, unsure of the loyalty of his army, fled England after an invasion by Dutch forces under the Protestant William III. William was invited by Parliament to the throne. James II then tried to reclaim the crown with the help of France and his Catholic supporters in Ireland led by Richard Talbot, 1st Earl of Tyrconnell. His hopes of using Ireland to reconquer England were thwarted at the Battle of the Boyne in July 1690.

The song Lillibullero puts words into the mouths of Irish Catholic Jacobites and satirizes their sentiments, pillorying the supporters of the Catholic King James. It was said to have ‘sung James II out of three kingdoms’.


Ho, brother Teague, dost hear the decree?
Lillibullero bullen a la
We are to have a new deputy
Lillibullero bullen a la

Refrain:
Lero Lero Lillibullero
Lillibullero bullen a la
Lero Lero Lero Lero
Lillibullero bullen a la


Oh by my soul it is a Talbot
Lillibullero bullen a la
And he will cut every Englishman's throat
Lillibullero bullen a la

Refrain

Now Tyrconnell is come ashore
Lillibullero bullen a la
And we shall have commissions galore
Lillibullero bullen a la

Refrain

And everyone that won't go to Mass
Lillibullero bullen a la
He will be turned out to look like an ass
Lillibullero bullen a la

Refrain

Now the heretics all go down
Lillibullero bullen a la
By Christ and St Patrick's the nation's our own
Lillibullero bullen a la

Refrain

There was an old prophecy found in a bog
Lillibullero bullen a la
The country'd be ruled by an ass and a dog
Lillibullero bullen a la

Refrain

Now this prophecy is all come to pass
Lillibullero bullen a la
For Talbot's the dog and Tyrconnell's the ass
Lillibullero bullen a la
Refrain

An explanation of the lyrics

The lyrics of the song are very closely related to Irish politics of the 1680s and '90s. "Teague" or Taig was (and is) a derisive term for the Irish Catholics - derived from the Irish first name "Tadhg". The "new Deputy" refers to Richard Talbot, 1st Earl of Tyrconnell, who was appointed Lord Deputy of Ireland by James II in 1687. The first Irishman and Roman Catholic to hold the post in nearly 200 years, he quickly filled the army in Ireland with Catholic officers (hence "we will have commissions galore") and recruits, alarming the Protestant community and raising the hopes of the Irish Catholic community for a restoration of their lands and political power ("by Christ and St Patrick, the nation's our own" - the reference may also be to Dublin's two Cathedrals: Christ Church - more properly Holy Trinity - and St Patrick's). The Catholic resurgence awakened fears amongst Irish Protestants of a massacre, similar to that which had happened in the Irish Rebellion of 1641.
The song parodies the widespread Irish belief in prophecy[citation needed] ("there was an old prophecy found in a bog, that Ireland'd be ruled by an ass and a dog"). Talbot, as well as being a name, is a breed of hound or hunting dog. A common theme of such prophecies was that the foreigners would be driven out of Ireland in some decisive battle.[citation needed] See the Siege of Limerick (1690), for an example of these attitudes. The song's title and the words of the refrain have been interpreted as a garbled version of the Irish words Lile ba léir é, ba linn an lá, "Lilly was clear and ours was the day". The lily may be a reference to the fleur de lis of France, or to a popular interpreter of prophecies named William Lilly, who had prophesied in the late 16th century that a Catholic would come to the throne of England. Alternatively, the lyrics could mean, "Lilly is clear [about this], the day will be ours". It is also thought that "Lilli" is a familiar form of William, and that bullero comes from the Irish "Buaill Léir ó", which gives: "William defeated all that remained".

The Drinking Version

When Venus, the goddess of beauty and love
Arose from the broth that swam on the sea
Minerva sprang out, from the cranium of Jove
A coy, sullen dame, as most authors agree
But Bacchus, they tell us, that prince of good fellas
Was Jupiter's son, pray attend to my tale
And those that dost patter, mistake not the matter
He sprang from a bottle of Nottingham Ale!
Refrain:
Nottingham Ale, boys, Nottingham Ale
No liquor on earth is like Nottingham Ale!
Nottingham Ale, boys, Nottingham Ale
No liquor on earth is like Nottingham Ale!
Now you bishops and deacons, priests, curates and vicars
When once you have tasted, you'll know it is true
That Nottingham Ale, it's the best of all liquors
And none understand what is good as do you
It dispels every vapor, saves pen, ink and paper
When you've a mind from your pulpit to rail
It can open your throats, you can preach without notes
When inspired by a bottle of Nottingham Ale
Refrain
Now you doctors who more executions have done
With powder and potion and bolus and pill
Than hangman with noose, a soldier with gun
A miser with famine, a lawyer with quill
To dispatch us the quicker, forbid us malt liquor
'Til our bodies consume and our faces grow pale
But mind who he pleases, what cures all diseases
'Tis a comforting bottle of Nottingham Ale

and the nursery rhyme

There was an old woman
Tossed up in a basket
Seventeen times as high as the moon.
Where she was going
I just had to ask it,
For in her hand she carried a broom.

"Old woman, old woman,
Old woman," said I,
"Please tell me, please tell me,
Why you're up so high?"
"I'm sweeping the cobwebs
Down from the sky,
And I'll be with you
By and by."

and finally the tune

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SISjSXsb1xU

[Roger Dyer]

Hi Rob,

Many thanks for the information regarding 'Lillibullero'. I had no idea whatsoever of it's origins. Although I have some recollection of singing a version of the song during my schooldays (can still hear it resounding off the walls of the assembly hall), for some strange reason I have always associated it with Britain's involvement in the Boer War....and why ? I don't really know . Over the years I do recall hearing it played quite regularly as an intro' for the news or some such programme on the BBC World Service. Behind a military band, it was a kind of music that would induce men to confront their fear as they marched forward into hell. It is the sort of tune one never forgets.


..........Roger

[Doc Vernon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SISjSXsb1xU And the old good BBC World Service when Radio Broadcast was real Radio! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4BZrSj2VU4

[Colin Pook]

Rob, I take my hat off to you. Where on earth do you get all this info. from?
Now that I have read the nursery rhyme, the words 'seventeen times as high as the moon' come back to

Anyway, thanks for all that mate, Best regards, Colin

[Doc Vernon]

The name of the game Colin is Google! Lots of info on all things to be had,however I am not taking anything away from Rob,as he may well have known all he has posted without the help of that great informer Mr Google haha!Cheers You know what I mean Rob!! some have it and some don't,me I don't I rely on Mr Google so much! Well there are I suppose things I do know haha! Eeeeekk!!! Doc the Crock!

[robpage]

The "problem " with Google is making it search what you want it to search and I have put a query into Google and got silly answers , then modified the search and got straight answers , so Google s not always as user friendly as it should be . I use it a lot , I do some consulting work and find the ability to search out different things a wonderful asset .