Family history search for a mariner

[Clive Farmer]

Greetings to all , I am a new member , fairly good at military research but struggling with merchant navy records , I am researching THOMAS BEAN born Hull 1885 awarded mercantile marine and british war medal , engaged minesweeping 1919 , on Pangbourne Dover , I have found several records on Find My Past recording service on SS ORISTANO , vessel number 133410 which I think is FULLERTON and mention on a crew list of previous ship VOLTURNO . I would like to know what his discharge number 380814 means and how to interpret crew lists as regards dates and whether each list relates to a seperate voyage . And whether there are records about these ships voyages or ships logs surviving .

Best wishes Clive Farmer

[Hugh]

Hi Clive and welcome,

The seaman's discharge number is his pivotal reference akin to a service number. It can be used to trace his service in the British Merchant Navy.
The cards you have found are from the Fourth Register of Seamen (Central Index Register) effectively 1918 - 1940. The originals are held at Southampton City Archives (I see you are from Southampton)
During the time period of his service the only way to trace him further is via Crew Agreements beginning with a known ship.
Using this method, with a bit of luck, can trace him all the way through his career as the Crew Agreement will usually name his previous ship but I stress you do need a bit of luck and be prepared to look deep into the various archives.

Crew lists can be found within the Crew Agreement, and the Crew Agreement can be found within the ship's Official Logbook. As far as looking at them is concerned they are filed in the archives for a complete year. Not all are held at The National Archives Kew - some are held outwith the country, Canada. Some Crew Agreements don't have surviving Logbooks either.

I have this on him so far - no further service recorded in the Central Index Register from 1923.
ORISTANO 17 May 1915 (previous ship - same)
CITO 17 Nov 1915
KATHLEEN LILLY - Nov 1918
You have his RNVR service record which shows him on the books of ATTENTIVE II - HMS PANGBOURNE 12 May 1919 - 12 Oct 1919.
FULLERTON - 6 Nov 1922
SELBY - 9 Dec 1922

Regards
Hugh

[John Albert Evans]

Clive,

I have found a photo of the Cito and the Volturno but for some reason beyond me I cannot upload them here. If you Google them you will see them including their history which is very interesting. The Volturno sank in the North Atlantic in 1913 with a loss of 136 passengers and crew but 520 passengers and crew were saved by eleven ships that answered her distress calls. Hope this may help you with your research.

John Albert Evans.

[Clive Farmer]

Many thanks for the helpful responses I now have a better understanding of the records and more details about Tommy Bean

Clive

[Keith at Tregenna]

You would be aware of the below but, need to know if you followed up and is the information correct. It may help us to further assist you. Keith.

He shows on the 1911 census as a mariner ?

There is a CR10 record card for him with a good photo from 1918. RS2 number 321719. Discharge No 380814. nok Emily Bean (wife) 13 Whitby Gr??, Rhodes st, HULL, also a CR1 record card which notes that he joined the Oristano (Official no 132805) at Hull on 9 February 1915. This is backed up by the 1915 crew list project which records him as S Bean ?

CR2 record card showing two voyage starts in 1922 ?

Discharge number (380814) suggests that his first foreign voyage occurred around 1905 ?

The mercantile marine medal suggests that he was a merchant seaman throughout ww1 ?

He was an entry from Shore into the post-WW1 Mine Clearance Service (MCS), employed in the sweeping/clearance of all mines ?

Would be helpful to others here that attempt to assist.

Keith.

SOURCE: Minesweeping Dover 1919 - Ships and navies - Great War Forum

[Clive Farmer]

All the data Keith quotes is what I have with the addition of an entry on the Hull absent voters list with the same address as the CR10 and an entry on the 1939 register. .I have had some success with the crew lists allowing for probable transcription errors . (EG Beam for Bean etc) But I cannot see dates on the crew lists and also am assuming the agreements and logs themselves have not been digitised so I cannot see where the various ships sailed ,
. I am puzzled by a two year difference on the dob on various records . The 1911 census and the assumed dob from the crew list entries show 1877 but the Cr10 and
the mercantile marine medal award list shows 22/3/1875 and the 1939 register shows 1877 .Although T Bean is a common name I dont think I am looking at two different individuals . There are no other T Beans on the mercantile marine medal award list and I have the medals themselves although they have the name but do not show a service number . I had assumed the mercantile marine medal was awarded for his minesweeping service , I know the BWM qualification date was extended beyond 1918 to allow for minesweeping after the war ended .

Any further help especially in how to read the crew lists would be appreciated anf also any ideas about the discrepancy with the dob which so far I am assuming to be an error on the CR10 which was then carried on to the military records , unlikely as that might seem .

Cheers Clive

[Hugh]

Hi Clive,

DoB recording on some MN cards are well known for errors so I would not worry too much about that.
The Mercantile Marine Medal was not awarded for minesweeping service but for general MN service during WW1.
With regard to reading crew lists - more correctly Crew Agreements - the ports the vessel arrived at and departed from will normally be shown on page 20/21 of the Ship's Official Logbook - these are not digitised. Note the Ship's Official Logbook is the main document and the Crew Agreement is held within that.

Regards
Hugh

[Keith at Tregenna]

Thanks for the update Clive.

Keith.

[Clive Farmer]

I am having some success in tracing vessel records and find the CLIP database useful . But would appreciate some help on two vessels . I cannot find the KATHLEEN LILLY and hope someone can help with a vessel number. As to the Volturno , as well as the one that caught fire and sank in 1913 I have found another vessel named Volturno #135597 also previously named Falernian and possibly Seringa all these references later than 1913. Can anyone suggest which is the more likely for my Thomas Bean . I suspect the later vessel because there is no trace of him on the crew lists of the 1913 disaster.

Clive

[Keith at Tregenna]

A quick look came up with a vessel in Finland ?

the English KATHLEEN LILY 13/12/1921. The ship had been in the Hietalahti shipyard for repairs and got a new name in connection with trade LILY.

Not certain yet if this is the correct one ?

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