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Thread: Fresh Water

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Fresh Water

    Our problems here are natural causes though John. The ship shortages were man made. Either through ignorance or the seeking of monetary gain. As regards the idea of overloading a ship is totally against my principles. Once when loading a steel cargo in Chiba Japan for the eastern seaboard of the US. The Head stevedore came up to me and asked how far over the plimsolls I wanted to go. ? He got a reply I won’t repeat, however he informed me the ship he had just completed loading was 6 inches over, she was of course a Greek.No doubt many made money on such methods of bypassing the regulations . Cheers JS

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  3. #12
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    Default Re: Fresh Water

    Quote Originally Posted by j.sabourn View Post
    People. Always ask questions about the romantic parts of a seaman’s life a..................... I advocated using old supply boats as stand by boats which had ample tank space for carrying, and it had to have a disaster to prove it. Not that it was made public , no that might upset our lawmakers and administrators in the shipping world. So Rob who has made a study of the before and afters of such, when thinking on your ideas of Safety , this one of the biggest ones should be born in mind.
    As I am giving a talk probably next week to mainly shore persons I will try and get it around to water and shock them into realising that life or lack of it is not a bed of roses. Cheers JS
    I wouldn't have started with an old trawler , hot showers for 300 men to get oil off at least 10 tonne , drink 300 x 10 drinks x 500 ml another 2 tonne+ the crew so at .least 15 tonne 15,000 litres . If as a shipowner you were sure you would never be used in a rescue then 200 litre

    When I first went to see many of the senior officers and the senior hands I've seen wartime service a lot would never speak about it but those that did all said the same thing when you got dumped in the sea the worst thing imaginable was the taste of Bunker C as it floated past your lips . So for your 300 capacity I would want 10 very hot showers available as a minimum which would mean a huge calorifier in the engine room to give me enough hot water . I would expect at least 50 beds and a paramedic as a minimum deep frozen microwave food and 10 microwaves in a bank in fact putting a pencil across the paper I worked out the minimum size you should have been was about 5000 times 15000 horsepower twin screw the size of a North Sea ferry with hospital facilities . Massive flood lighting , and all kinds of things but I'm sure the shipowner would never have thought about providing .

    I think throughout the history of the Merchant Navy you need somebody to die in many circumstances to make progress because in an office somewhere down in Leadenhall Street there is a shipowners superintendent that says you'll never need that you don't want one of those that's totally unnecessary and it probably is in the warmth of his office with his hot coffee .

    I left the sea just before the Free Enterprise at Zeebrugge and remembering that the assistant boson who took an awful lot of the blame died prematurely last year his name was Mark Chapman I believe if you look back in the ships records I was told that for at least 5 years they had asked for a switch a light and a cable to be connected to that door and a massive cost at dry dock was just over £100 that's almost 50 pence a life .
    Last edited by robpage; 19th February 2019 at 10:17 AM.
    Rob Page R855150 - British & Commonwealth Shipping ( 1965 - 1973 ) Gulf Oil -( 1973 - 1975 ) Sealink ( 1975 - 1986 )

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    Default Re: Fresh Water

    The subject of water is very interesting. We can all live without gold , diamonds , mansions and soon without oil as technology advances in battery power combined with green energy.
    We cannot live without water which makes it the most valuable natural resource. If the world weather patterns continue to change countries with borders will begin to dam or divert rivers to prevent them flowing into neighbouring countries. Oil wars will be the past , water wars the future.

    I was also on a ship were fresh water tanks were partially pumped out to load more cargo , this was a full cargo of bagged fertilizer bound for Shanghai. It took six weeks to get there.

    John when you give your talk make sure the plate is passed round at least twice before the doors are unlocked to let the audience out.

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    Default Re: Fresh Water

    #12... as you say Rob. However what about the plumbing to go with the water. Vector offshore who I think are still in that part of the industry as said in a previous post, I. Brought out the first one, and know that not perfect was closer to the requirements needed. She was a converted supply vessel. Had fresh water showers all over the ship outside and inside , gas detectors also. 2 frcs and the crew amounts as suggested by Lord Cullen what I saw and heard of others there was very little change in attitude before I left the UK. Back to square one I should imagine. As said and repeat these ships were the last one should expect rescue missions conducted from. That was not the job description , their use was to launch a boat to pick up someone falling off the rig. This was purely expected to be their function and not as made out to be rescue vessels themselves. The media once again sticks it’s foot in its mouth. JS

    #13... Louis I hope the audience doesn’t turn up. If I was going to pass a plate round it would be a bucket. Maybe with heaving line on it. Would say it was for the Louis the flys benevolent fund. Cheers JS
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 19th February 2019 at 10:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Fresh Water

    The plumbing whilst being important John needs a bloody great big calorifier to get the water nice and hot the bust the oil off the skin and I would think buckets full of byprox , as well as some decent as we all know trying to get crude oil off your skin is a bloody nightmare sometimes it's easier to take the skin off . So with the calorifier you then need a donkey boiler or a big heat source suddenly you've be got a massive design job on your hands if you don't do it right it won't work
    Rob Page R855150 - British & Commonwealth Shipping ( 1965 - 1973 ) Gulf Oil -( 1973 - 1975 ) Sealink ( 1975 - 1986 )

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    Default Re: Fresh Water

    What an interesting thread - I particularly like Louis's post and the point that no matter what else exists in the world, fresh water is the most valuable natural resource. It scares the life out of you to think that if some terrorist organisations or for that matter a major power took control or interrupted water supplies the world could become a very different world altogether. Water could become the only currency in the world.
    When one door closes another one shuts, it must be the wind

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    Default Re: Fresh Water

    At the time of the Salisbury nerve gas poisoning I was listening to somebody on World Service and they were discussing nerve gas agents and I believe he quoted that a litre of a particular substance could pollute every major water source in northern Europe I can't remember what it is it might have been related to Sarin . Why do you consider as a nap case in a VW campervan with a litre bottle of nerve gas a plastic boiler suit rubber wellies and a face mask could easily kill hundreds of millions of people it is beyond belief
    Rob Page R855150 - British & Commonwealth Shipping ( 1965 - 1973 ) Gulf Oil -( 1973 - 1975 ) Sealink ( 1975 - 1986 )

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    Default Re: Fresh Water

    What twisted minds go into the discovery of such pollutants. JS.

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    Default Re: Fresh Water

    Quote Originally Posted by j.sabourn View Post
    What twisted minds go into the discovery of such pollutants. JS.
    Government !!!!!
    Rob Page R855150 - British & Commonwealth Shipping ( 1965 - 1973 ) Gulf Oil -( 1973 - 1975 ) Sealink ( 1975 - 1986 )

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    Default Re: Fresh Water

    #12... Rob what I can remember of water consumptions on the average cargoship with say 40 of a crew was about 8 tons a day. Fortuanetley on deep sea vessels drinking water and domestic water were kept in seperate tanks. On the trawlers I was on it was all in one communal tank. If doing a 6 week passage . Would require a minimum of 336 long tons of F.W. And that’s without emergency reserves.which if.you applied the same rule as for fuel plus 30% would mean sailing with say 450 tons of fresh water , plus what you had in the. ER feed tanks. Today with evaporators and distillers the same ships sail with about 20 tons of water , and usually arrive at their destination with more than what they sailed with. So one can assume the. Shipowners made at least 500 tons extra cargo carrying capacity. That must of at least paid a good percentage of the crews wages bill. Taking this further into the scientific realms of the future with unmanned ships , the ships constant was usually about 80 tons this to cover stores and crew , which was also about 2 inches on the plimsolls. So when the robot ships come . They won’t require all these figures which will be surplus to requirements. So there will be at least 600 tons more cargo capacity. All that is required then is to get that 18 ton a day fuel down to more acceptable levels. God knows what the insurance is going to be like though. Cheers JS
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 19th February 2019 at 11:49 AM.

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