Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Kia Trader, would this have happened if using paper charts

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Shields
    Posts
    5,203
    Thanks (Given)
    480
    Thanks (Received)
    6079
    Likes (Given)
    4096
    Likes (Received)
    14782

    Default Kia Trader, would this have happened if using paper charts

    Despite all the form filling, checks etc. etc. the Kia Trader still managed to ground on a charted underwater obstacle on its voyage from Papetee to New Caledonia, despite warnings being displayed on its ECDIS. The ship carried no paper charts, relying on ECDIS for all passage planning and voyage.
    monitoring yet, despite the rock it grounded on, being checked upon by the 2nd mate when preparing the passage plan, due to using an enlarged scale, he failed to mark it as a danger. Audio alarms were turned off also. Download the .pdf file from the report.

    Read the attached report into the grounding and subsequent loss, makes interesting reading
    https://maritimecyprus.com/2018/08/0...-12-july-2017/
    rgds
    J.A.
    Last edited by John Arton; 15th August 2018 at 11:05 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    W.A.
    Posts
    23,641
    Thanks (Given)
    12850
    Thanks (Received)
    13719
    Likes (Given)
    19100
    Likes (Received)
    76764

    Default Re: Kia Trader, would this have happened if using paper charts

    I don’t see any explanation of how the ship was manned , how many hours the watchkeepers did or any relevant information as would be in an enquiry for such a loss. Unless I haven’t taken enough time reading it. There is always going to be misadventures at sea. Most are avoidable . And I would be the last person to jump to any conclusion to apportion blame to anyone without a lot more knowing the other facts, cheers JWS

  3. Thanks Doc Vernon thanked for this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Shields
    Posts
    5,203
    Thanks (Given)
    480
    Thanks (Received)
    6079
    Likes (Given)
    4096
    Likes (Received)
    14782

    Default Re: Kia Trader, would this have happened if using paper charts

    Quote Originally Posted by j.sabourn View Post
    I don’t see any explanation of how the ship was manned , how many hours the watchkeepers did or any relevant information as would be in an enquiry for such a loss. Unless I haven’t taken enough time reading it. There is always going to be misadventures at sea. Most are avoidable . And I would be the last person to jump to any conclusion to apportion blame to anyone without a lot more knowing the other facts, cheers JWS
    JWS
    You need to download the .pdf file to view the full report. There is a download icon on the website I gave. Once downloaded you will have all the facts, including screen shots of the ECDIS, copies of the check lists etc, etc.
    Rgds
    J.A.

  5. Thanks j.sabourn, Captain Kong, happy daze john in oz thanked for this post
    Likes Red Lead Ted, Doc Vernon liked this post
  6. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    W.A.
    Posts
    23,641
    Thanks (Given)
    12850
    Thanks (Received)
    13719
    Likes (Given)
    19100
    Likes (Received)
    76764

    Default Re: Kia Trader, would this have happened if using paper charts

    #3... John the old saying Worse things happen at sea, this is an example of one of the worse things. I really am not conversant with present day practices at sea, but could see the obviously patent faults with the mannng and certificate structure and general lack of interest in the job. It ceased to be a way of life many years ago and was just a mundane job in my latter years which seemed to accompany a lack of moral with the drop in competence. My views only. I still have never got over sleeping with one eye open and both ears tuned in to different noises. Probably never will. I will always believe for example the proper way to train any seaman of any rank is on the job and not in a classroom . My beliefs are different than others , and are basically you can’t tell someone to do something unless you have done it yourself. A piece of paper saying you have done some module in a set of lectures by someone who may himself have been taught under modern guide lines, I don’t hold too much faith in. It says in the enquiry or whatever you want to call it, that the spoken language was English. How do they know that persons were conversant in this language. Used to be there was a basic paper in the English language for second mate under the old system, why was. This paper withdrawn years ago.? Too hard for some maybe. ? I will stick with my old memories of how things used to be. Cheers JS
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 15th August 2018 at 11:25 PM.

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Sunbury Victoria Australia
    Posts
    24,991
    Thanks (Given)
    8300
    Thanks (Received)
    10126
    Likes (Given)
    106523
    Likes (Received)
    45653

    Default Re: Kia Trader, would this have happened if using paper charts

    Two factors on modern day ships, particularly containers.

    Crew from many countries who do not speak English and who find it hard to communicate with others.
    Not uncommon to have four or five different languages.
    Second, the low level of crew on ships now, just enough to fill the watch and that is about it.


    Cost to ship owners, little has changed since our day.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

  8. Likes Doc Vernon, dave moore liked this post
  9. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Shields
    Posts
    5,203
    Thanks (Given)
    480
    Thanks (Received)
    6079
    Likes (Given)
    4096
    Likes (Received)
    14782

    Default Re: Kia Trader, would this have happened if using paper charts

    What got me on reading the full report was the sheer number of forms and check lists filled in by the 2 nd mate, approved by the master, signed by all the watch keeping officer's. The management company are a well respected one and the Manning level certainly seemed adequate for the ship and it's trade. All those forms and check lists are the result of the introduction of the international ship management legislation and to me this is another example of how ISM has turned today's seafarer's into tick box advocates and taken away from them common sense and seamanship. The fact that the 2 nd mate interrogated the ECDIS over the rock the vessel ran aground on, yet still thought that his plan showed itwas, mistakenly, safe to pass so close to it, coupled with the failure to set the correct look ahead and port/ stbd safety zones, again reinforces my view that many of the course's/ specific training modules etc are nothing more than tick box exercises that give the holder's an unrealistic reliance on the electronic systems they use to the detriment of common sense. If I read the report correctly, the company approved passing off distance of1-2 cables of any danger in open water navigation is far too small on a vessel doing 18knots.
    Rgds
    J.A.

  10. Likes j.sabourn, happy daze john in oz liked this post
  11. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    W.A.
    Posts
    23,641
    Thanks (Given)
    12850
    Thanks (Received)
    13719
    Likes (Given)
    19100
    Likes (Received)
    76764

    Default Re: Kia Trader, would this have happened if using paper charts

    If there was plenty of sea room a mile would have been the closest most masters would have gone. A cable is 600 feet and one tenth of a nautical mile. Seems to me that most have forgotten that discretion is the better part of valour. The master of the Costa Concordia is a good example of the idiocy shown by some of today’s mariners. JS

  12. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Sunbury Victoria Australia
    Posts
    24,991
    Thanks (Given)
    8300
    Thanks (Received)
    10126
    Likes (Given)
    106523
    Likes (Received)
    45653

    Default Re: Kia Trader, would this have happened if using paper charts

    There was a ship ran aground of the coast of NZ a few years ago.
    The captain was from Vietnam if memory serves.
    Sailed far too close to the coast line and hit rocks, rocks he said he did not know were there.
    He does know now but the ship was a mess, most of the cargo washed ashore and was salvaged by locals who thought it a good idea to take it into safe keeping.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

  13. Thanks j.sabourn thanked for this post
  14. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    isle of wight
    Posts
    6,701
    Thanks (Given)
    2291
    Thanks (Received)
    5237
    Likes (Given)
    15143
    Likes (Received)
    24215

    Default Re: Kia Trader, would this have happened if using paper charts

    I recall not too many years ago seeing the Royal Navy ship that ran aground off the OZ? coast, coming back to Portsmouth piggy back on a barge, name of the ship escapes my old brain at the moment, kt
    R689823

  15. Likes j.sabourn liked this post
  16. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    W.A.
    Posts
    23,641
    Thanks (Given)
    12850
    Thanks (Received)
    13719
    Likes (Given)
    19100
    Likes (Received)
    76764

    Default Re: Kia Trader, would this have happened if using paper charts

    Remember seeing that on the news out here Keith. Was posts on it at the time. The place where she anchored was off Norfolk Island, and as said at the time I used to anchor in a similar spot depending on weather when doing a bottom survey tween Oz and Auckland for Optus. Norfolk Island was quite convenient for shelter on which ever side was the lee side. Her CO was ashore at the time but there are other competent people supposedly onboard . The Navy certainly got egg on its face over that one. The ship I was on was called the Mermaid Raider and was a converted supply vessel. She was converted for the job in hand by adding an A frame for lowering equipment to the sea bed. And with the addition of about a dozen surveyors mainly Dutch to the ships complement of 9. Saw a lot of Sydney the time I was on that charter. Cheers JWS.
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 17th August 2018 at 08:00 AM.

  17. Likes Keith Tindell liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •