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Thread: Climate Change -Again.

  1. #91
    Keith at Tregenna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change -Again.

    Mankind has been the problem all along.

    It is not to difficult to see all around us.

    K.

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    Default Re: Climate Change -Again.

    Captain Kong.

    Sorry for the delay in answering to your "intelligent greenie" request to respond, but as I'm sure you are aware my days are unfortunately tied-up, but I have previously posted data twice on these subjects: " Nov 30 2018 "...Volcanos are not the problem they are natural events and bear no part of the pre-industrial vs today's climate controversy. They have been eruptions forever and will do so in the future they are considered into the natural order of things (think of Pompeii (Mount Versuvius ), Tambora, Indonesia, etc.)). Scientist: volcanologists, climatologists etc. factor these things into thier equations...."

    It's unnatural occurrences that are the problem and the majority are removable or at least vastly reduced.

    Nov 29 2018
    "...The freezing of polar ocean surfaces and surface ice defrosting is not a problem either that's just replacing a form of water back into its origin. It is land ice defrosting that is the problem. it is additional water that has accumulated over millenniums adding and raising the levels of the oceans. Rainwater is a normal replacement of evaporation which is a mixture of both ocean water and rain from the land, a cycle event, think of a revolving door, or of this never ending discussion."


    Island nations and the raising of ocean levels"

    "The Maldives are an archipelago of far spread, low-lying islands and atolls located in the Indian Ocean. Climate change is severely threatening the very existence of the Maldives as well as diminishing existing human capabilities on these islands. According to the World Bank, with "future sea levels projected to increase in the range of 10 to 100 centimeters by the year 2100, the entire country could be submerged".Obviously this would seriously impact the culture and livelihood of all the citizens of the Maldives. As the President of the Maldives, Maumoon Abdul Gayoom, notes "to the three hundred thousand inhabitants of the Maldives none of these threats compare, in magnitude and likelihood, to global climate change and consequent sea level rise." [ The majority of the population of the Maldives lives on small, flat, densely populated atolls that are threatened by violent storms or even the slightest sea level rise.]

    Pacific Islands
    "The Marshall Islands are a collection of low-lying islands and atolls located in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, all less than six feet in elevation. Due to the geographic and topographic situation of these islands, they are placed in a position of intense risk in terms of exposure to the effects of climate change. Of particular risk is the danger of sea level rise. Sea level rise has already encroached landwards, and high tides and frequent storms continue to threaten local homes and property. Recent research indicates that sea levels have been increasing by 3.4 millimeters (0.13 inches) per year. A one meter rise could result in the loss of 80 percent of the Majuro Atoll, which is home to half the nation's population. In addition, the underwater fresh water supply has been salinated by this influx of seawater. In 2013, over 200 homes were damaged in the capital Majuro, and the airport was forced to close due to particularly high tides."

    Other island nations

    "Climate change is not only affecting the Maldives and the Marshall Islands. All islands, especially low lying ones with coastal population centers, are threatened by the effects of climate change. Many of the Pacific Island nations like the Marshall Islands, including Tuvalu and Nauru, are currently having to deal with rising sea levels. Tuvalu is a small Polynesian island nation located in the Pacific Ocean. It can be found about halfway between Hawaii and Australia. It is made up of nine tiny islands, five of which are coral atolls while the other four consist of land rising from the sea bed. All are low-lying islands with no point on Tuvalu being higher than 4.5m above sea level. Beside Funafuti, the capital of Tuvalu, sea level rise is estimated at 1.2 ± 0.8 mm/year. As well as this, the dangerous peak high tides in Tuvalu are becoming higher causing greater danger. In response to sea level rise, Tuvalu is considering resettlement plans in addition to pushing for increased action in confronting climate change at the UN. As well as island nations, nations with significant coastal low-lying topography, such as Bangladesh, and low-lying coastal cities, such as Miami, are also threatened by sea level rise.

    Alliance of Small Island States (AOSIS) is an intergovernmental organization of low-lying coastal and small island countries. Established in 1990, the main purpose of the alliance is to consolidate the voices of Small Island Developing States (SIDS) to address global warming. AOSIS has been very active from its inception, putting forward the first draft text in the Kyoto Protocol negotiations as early as 1994. At the 2013 Warsaw climate change conference, AOSIS also pushed for the establishment of an international mechanism on loss and damages stressed by the wreckage of Supertyphoon Haiyan. As the existence of many AOSIS states are put at risk by climate change AOSIS has threatened lawsuits. The results of a recent review of the literature show that potential liability for climate change-related losses for the Alliance of Small Island States is over $570 trillion.
    Many of the member states were present at the December 2009 United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP15). Democracy Now! reported that members from the island state of Tuvalu interrupted a session of the 2009 United Nations Climate Change Conference on 10 December 2009 to demand that global temperature rise be limited to 1.5 °C instead of the proposed 2 °C.
    AOSIS has a membership of 44 states, of which 39 are members of the United Nations and five are observers from all around the world. The alliance represents 28% of the developing countries, and 20% of the UN's total membership."

    In the Pacific Ocean:

    (15 countries)
    Cook Islands
    Fiji
    Kiribati
    Marshall Islands
    Federated States of Micronesia
    Nauru
    Niue
    Palau
    Papua New Guinea
    Samoa
    Solomon Islands
    Timor-Leste
    Tonga
    Tuvalu
    Vanuatu



    In the course of researching I came across this convention last year that I'm sure you would have loved to attend. It was in Edmonton, Canada:

    "Flat Earth International Conference 2018"
    fe2018.com
    [Subjects for discussion]
    "Hey! Look, the stars are not billions of miles away. Charles-Darwin-A-Man-of-Scientism. Pythagoras is evil. Flat Earth UN Map. The stars move we do not. Star trails prove geocentic creation."

    Rodney.
    Last edited by Rodney Mills; 10th May 2019 at 01:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Climate Change -Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Mills View Post
    Johno, could not find any convention or international meeting of scientists even vaguely related to the subject of global warming in Vienna.
    However, there was a meeting in Edmonton, Canada, the IPCC, they had a vote:


    "...20 [scientists] that disagree with the accuracy of the IPCC climate position.
    14 disagree that climate warming causes global warming.
    5 believe global warming will have few negative consequences.

    The remaining 97% [scientists] do believe there is global warming and it is caused by the actions of man and that steps should be taken immediately to hold todays position and reverse it back...."

    I posted this on Nov 29 2018.
    Rodders, mate of mine here, an ex farmer, said he saw the report of the radios prog in the weekend papers about March.
    He also says he heard part of the radio but was not sure where they were talking about.
    Maybe able to get hold of a back copy of paper.

    Speaking of papers, about 8 years ago our chief scientist here took early retirement.
    He wrote a long article in the Saturday paper about the work of CSIRO on the climate.
    As he told it the figures his department put out, all computer generated, if true would see the earth dead within a couple of decades. But that is what the computer said with the info going in.
    But as he said, they are the figures the gov wanted and had they not produced it there was every chance funding would have been cut.
    It was this situation that made him take early retirement.
    Last edited by happy daze john in oz; 10th May 2019 at 05:14 AM.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

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  6. #94
    Keith at Tregenna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change -Again.

    Certain many would be interested in more if the links could be added.

    K.

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    Default Re: Climate Change -Again.

    Johno. I don't hold with assh2#es who drive spikes into trees to harm loggers, trespass on or intervene with the safe passage of whalers, dress like whankers and play dead in the street impeding traffic Etc., or the manipulation of computer data to promote or condemn a point of view, or any intentional miss representation to prove a point. I do not suffer fools gladly. I do however, condemn wanton destruction of old forests to manufacture homes, newspapers or toilet rolls Etc. The drilling for oil, digging for coal, or building condos on scenic spots such as our (and your) national scenic treasures.

    I do not like nuclear plants: dealing with spent fuel that stays active for thousands of years and must be buried a mile deep in a concrete tomb is not on. So in the case of nuclear power plants I'm a NIMBY (not in my back yard).. I am against whaling as should anyone on this site who has watched these amazing creatures from the deck of a ship.

    At the last satellite count there are more trees growing in the US today than have been growing before Columbus came. Some reasons are obvious: Post Columbus Americans have populated and planted trees in the Mid-West and Western semi-desert States where there were none before, if only for decorative or shade purposes.

    My State of South Carolina's major business is timber. It has multitudes of fir tree plantations whose trees are harvested when grown, and shredded, branches and all to turn in to chip-boards for building products. Once harvested the plantation is replanted for future growth, thus many trees. The major problem as I see it is it's uniformity, row upon row of giant Christmas trees. Recently after clearing, the logging companies are leaving a (estimate) thirty foot border of old forest as a visual buffer. to hide the eyesore. That's fair, I can live with that. Farmers expand bush land for crops are leaving a fair size clump of old growth as shelter for wildlife. It could be for altruistic purposes, somewhere the deer can hide so they can whack them in hunting season. In any case I can agree with that. But I would fight to the end to protect the giant sequoia trees in California, the largest living thing on the planet. Condos on the grand canyon, Wallmart store in Yellowstone Park or digging for coal in Flinders Range for that matter.

    Am I a radical greenie? I suppose I am to a rabid Flat Earther. (I have used these terms, only as a form of jest or tongue in cheek at worst). I would like to believe I am, if one has to use labels, merely a free thinker.

    What convinced me to be a greenie? My first trip through the Mediterranean and the Red Sea was in 1953 on my first trip. I sat out on deck as often as I could and watched pods of dolphins cavort around the ship and pods jumping as far as one could see. I ate fried flying fish for breakie (the first one in the a.m. went to the old-man). I went through the Red Sea in 1977 It was a bloody toilet. The only thing bobbing was plastic empty bottles and poo! Gone were the dolphins and flying fish. In 1990 I scuba dived in Greece and Yugoslavia. Not a fish to be seen, not even a sprat, just anenomeis (Sp?) and bottles and plastic trash. I was told that fishermen had used dynamite to fish and ultimately killed the fishing beds and everything that swam.

    Okay that's it, it's off to the hospital time.

    Cheers Rodney

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    Default Re: Climate Change -Again.

    Hi Rod.
    I agree with what you have just posted,
    Flying fish, many voyages past we used to collect the flying fish on deck during the 4 to 8 watch for breakfast, so many of them.
    Huge swarms of them taking off as the ships approached. Dolphins leaping around the bow.
    .
    I have just sailed 20,000 miles around the world. through the Caribbean, Panama, across the Pacific Ocean , the Tasman Sea, The Barrier Reef, the Coral Sea, and Indian Ocean, All day and every day looking out for them for two and a half months.
    I never saw one Flying Fish.
    I could not believe it, Also I never saw one Dolphin, or Whale. No sea life at all, In the air along the Southern Ocean, not one Albatross.
    The Asian Nations are over fishing, so how can they be stopped?
    I do despair at that.
    Cheers
    Brian

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    Default Re: Climate Change -Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kong View Post
    Hi Rod.
    I agree with what you have just posted,
    Flying fish, many voyages past we used to collect the flying fish on deck during the 4 to 8 watch for breakfast, so many of them.
    Huge swarms of them taking off as the ships approached. Dolphins leaping around the bow.
    .
    I have just sailed 20,000 miles around the world. through the Caribbean, Panama, across the Pacific Ocean , the Tasman Sea, The Barrier Reef, the Coral Sea, and Indian Ocean, All day and every day looking out for them for two and a half months.
    I never saw one Flying Fish.
    I could not believe it, Also I never saw one Dolphin, or Whale. No sea life at all, In the air along the Southern Ocean, not one Albatross.
    The Asian Nations are over fishing, so how can they be stopped?
    I do despair at that.
    Cheers
    Brian
    Yes, Brian. What have we done to the sea?

    A while back I wrote this:

    Waiting For Her

    He huddles among the tussock grass,
    Crop empty,
    Stomach shrinking,
    Half-grown feathers drip
    With South Atlantic weather.

    On the other side of the World
    A Wandering Albatross
    Drowns inside a tuna net.
    Last edited by Harry Nicholson; 10th May 2019 at 06:15 PM.
    Harry Nicholson

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    Default Re: Climate Change -Again.

    Rodney there is another advantage that some have found from leaving old growth forest alone. That is it reduces the loss of top soil when we have strong winds here in Oz. How many of us living in Oz have had to clean of top soil from the house after strong winds. Having problems understanding some of our members points of views on this subject. In one post all is well and nothing is happening in their area as the birds are singing and the plants are growing well. Then in another post they lament the loss of creatures around the world. Notice that there is a delegation from our neighbors in the pacific for Australia to please start taking action as their islands are slowly being inundated with rising tides. Guess what one of our bloody liberal ministers remarked? That they move to higher ground. I just hope that this rabble in office gets kicked out next week as the world can not take another three years of inaction. Not that the alternate ones are going to handle it any better but hopefully will start the ball rolling. Even if it is all a con trick surely even the most ardent climate denier will have to admit that it would still benefit the world to clean up the evironment. As for all those scientists with apposing views one has to look into where they are getting their funds from before believing either side instead of relying on the ones that conform with your own personal uneducted view on it.
    That's the way the mop flops.

    My thanks to Brian for this site.

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    Default Re: Climate Change -Again.

    I am not a 'Grennie' to my mind they do far more harm than any other party could ever, with concepts that will destroy us over time.

    But I do believe in conservation, we are planting millions of trees here in Oz which is good, but then we take in nuclear waste and burry it in the outback.
    Each piece is about the size of a house brick and goes deep down.

    More could and should be done to protect the environment but there is a lack of political will from both sides to tackle the problem in a sensible and organized manner.
    While so much rhetoric goes on about climate change without the public having the right of reply to those who preach it, persons such as I will always be very skeptical about what is said.

    Too many conflicting arguments make it impossible to come to a reasonable conclusion.

    Back in the 80' we had a country city that was fully solar powered, all the street lights, parking meters, signage etc powered in this manner.
    Now none.
    I asked a local why, unreliable, too costly to maintain and restrictive times of use even though they did have some battery back up.
    I know they have improved since then but the problem is reliability will all renewable energy.

    Coal mines here will continue to be built as they provide both employment and export earnings.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

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    Default Re: Climate Change -Again.

    As previously mentioned here in Oz coming weekend a Feral erection, so called as we have the biggest bunch of p***s standing you have ever seen.
    One of the major subjects is 'Climate Change', so one of the weekend papers conducted a survey of over 1,000 voters on the subject here in Victoria.

    The results quite amazing showing just how uneducated so many are.

    Over 75% had no clue as to the Climate of the state, which is according to senior climatologists temperate.

    Most though maybe tropical or sub tropical.

    The greater majority think the weather is the climate and cannot distinguish between the two.

    But then who could blame them, the opposition keeps on about it but without any details of what they mean.
    State scientists are the same and like all parliamentarians will not talk about it.
    It has become some sort of secret as to what it is and what it does.

    With such an approach there is little wonder the populous have no concept of what is going on.
    Talk of reducing emissions to 25% of those of 2005 but again no detail of what that means.

    So what exactly do they mean by 'Climate Change"?
    Unless, and until they can be decisive in the meaning it is little wonder so many do not believe all they hear about it.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

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