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Thread: William (Billy) Turner

  1. #11
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    Default Re: William (Billy) Turner

    For when you get up in the morning... British seamen on British ships paid PAYE tax. Plus NHI contributions know this very well as on.some ships either the Chief Steward or the second mate made up the pay off slips. This is British ships only. Foreign vessels was not deducted and again if your father stayed out of the uk from April 1st. or April the 5th.to the same 12 months later Can't remember which he was exempt from tax and would get back if he had paid. The rules have changed since then and are allowed different conditions, again others will know, but again is what your father would have faced. Seafarers could be either established or unestablihed if established worked in tandem with what was known as the British Shipping Federation a pool of such seamen and work offered them, if unestablished could if necessary go and find their own work. Could also be on contract to one particular company. Times have changed quite a bit since your Dad died and also since I retired so others may have more info. JWS
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 27th August 2017 at 05:26 AM.

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    Default Re: William (Billy) Turner

    Hi Pam .
    Welcome to the site hope you get plenty of satisfaction from the lads on here.
    You asked what voyage not completed was, well it could be he jumped ship, or he could have been taken to hospital, it could mean that he joined a ship spent some days on her in his home port then missed the sailing.
    To give you some idea of 10,000 tons we loaded 10,000 tons of sugar in Queensland and discharged it in Tilbury then loaded a full cargo of cars for Australia, after discharging there we loaded a full cargo, 10,000 tons of tin fruit for the UK. As for tramping as John has said that for a seaman was the best, calling into a port in the Sudan
    for a few tons of animal hides then down to Aden for another lot, then to Ceylon as it was known then for tea etc etc.
    Your Dad was on plenty of ships so he would have seen much of the world.
    Cheers Des

    redc.gif

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    Default Re: William (Billy) Turner

    Hi Pam it is possible I may have sailed with your father , although in different departments , I was on deck he was engine room.
    The ships we both sailed on are ; Flaminian and Florian. General cargo ships running between Liverpool and Mediterranean ports , average trip 6 weeks.
    Tamega , Tagus , Tiber , Tua , Tronto. 1970 to 72 . Small container ships , Hustler class . Medi ports and Israel. Later the names were changed to prefix City , same ships different names as shown in your father's discharge book. Sorry to say I cannot remember the names or faces of the engineers at the time . Your father was older than me , I was early 20s then.

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    Default Re: William (Billy) Turner

    Hi Pam, as said in previous posts, your dad would have been away of long periods, and you have to remember that communication was only by letters, and they could be delayed for lots or reasons, change of destination etc etc, so your Mum would have had to hold the fort, so to speak, bring up children, household problems etc, so she would have been a very self sufficient women, and i am sorry to hear of her health. Tramp ships were not for everyone, i myself loved the not knowing where you were going next, and could spend several weeks at sea, travelling at a speed of approx 12 miles per hour in many cases. Alas it is a time long gone now, but like most of us on this site, just wallow in the memories, regards KT

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    Default Re: William (Billy) Turner

    I know he paid tax and NI as I said I can see notes to that effect in his record books, just so different to how I pay mine. How would Mum have got access to hi wages, I do remember Dad asking her when home 'Did you get your allotment?' You've been a mine of info already thanks again. Will probably have more questions iy you can bear it!!

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    Default Re: William (Billy) Turner

    Hiya Louis. Your post has been really useful. I seem to remember the odd box of Jaffa oranges in the house a few times in the 70s, from Haifa, I think and there's a stamp for Ashdod, Israel, spring of 1975, in his book from a trip on the City of Limassol .Dad was on the Flaminian quite a bit, six trips I think, and then when it was renamed City of Izmir for the last time in 1975. The Florian too, about 8 trips.

    Did particular ships usually ply the same routes?
    Why were the ships renamed, was it because they were transferred to a different line in the same company?
    Any photos of those ships?
    Dad born 1935, so would have been late 30s in the early 70s, 47 when he passed away. He was a big Everton fan just in case that jostles the memory? Appreciate your post Louis. Thanks

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    Default Re: William (Billy) Turner

    Hello Keith.
    Mum was/is our absolute rock. Had 5 of us to look after, plus her Mum & Dad who lived with us too. She also nursed part time, and did the decorating, well everything really (Dad lacked the patience for that kind of stuff) and as you said, very independent. Mum had my older brother in 1960, me in 1961, her third in '63, fourth in '64 and then a hiatus/rest until 1971 when my sister came along. It's devastating to be losing her to this cruel disease, so thank you for kind words. Part of the reason why I'm researching Dad's maritime history is to give me another focus.

    I think Dad's time on tramp ships, (presumably that's seamens' jargon) was quite short going by his books though, the longest trips he made seem to have been in the late 50s after completing his apprenticeship at Cammell Laird in 1955 and whilst he was single.
    Last edited by Pam Turner; 27th August 2017 at 05:05 PM. Reason: This is for Keith, didn't make that clear.

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    Default Re: William (Billy) Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Turner View Post

    1.Did particular ships usually ply the same routes?

    2.Why were the ships renamed, was it because they were transferred to a different line in the same company?

    3.Tramp ships

    . Thanks
    1. Ships whether they be passenger or cargo ships where in the 'Liner Trade' and had regular runs, for example....Union Castle to South Africa, Palm Line to West Africa, PSNC to the West Coast of South America, Blue Star to East coast of South America and Australia, and others too numerous to mention on regular runs.

    2. Ships were renamed for a number of reasons, mostly tax related if remaining in the same management (Holding company), or being sold to another company, or even if being sold or sent to the breakers and the company wanted to use that name and port of registry on the new ship. Ships were so easily recognisable in the old days, 40's to 70's, you could tell which ship belonged to a company if only seeing the sillohuette (never could spell that!) on the horizon, by the rake of their masts, or funnels and configuration of sampson posts and goal post masts etc.

    3. Tramp ships had no regular run, so just tramped around the world picking up cargoes where ever the owners could locate them, normally aiming for the same geographical location where they had discharged the previous cargo, some times you could sail long distances in ballast (empty) to pick up the next cargo, you rarely knew where you were heading to load a cargo until you had discharged your current cargo. Some people preferred it to the liner trades, which tramp men called bus services. My longest trip on a tramp ship was 22 months, others were anything from 3 months to 10 months. You saw more of the world on a tramp ship than you did on a liner trade, I sailed with men who had been at sea for 30 years and had never been through the Panama Canal because their liner trade did not need to go that route, they missed an interesting event.

    By now you will be getting a flavour of what your dad did, and why he loved it (and probably hated it at times, as we all did) but the sea was your mistress and it was hard to say no, when she called you back into her bosom

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    Default Re: William (Billy) Turner

    Hi Pam.
    The allotment note that you were asking about was a sum allotted by the seaman to be sent to his mother, wife or maybe a relative, the sum sent was in the form of a paper like a check that the shipping Company sent to the address listed, it could be cashed in at various places. When I first went to sea I was sending my Mum 2pounds per month; a lot I suppose out of 7pounds a month wages, but also a lot for my Mum. As she was crippled and couldn't go out she would cash them with the bloke that came around with groceries, he would take a small sum for his troubles of cashing them probably in a bank. One leave after a twelve months trip I asked her if she had cashed all the notes, she got about six out from under the mattress; I told her to make sure she cashed them as they came in.
    Cheers Des

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    Default Re: William (Billy) Turner

    #15... If you. Have his first issue ofDischarge Book will have his NHI number in it, also his Income Tax number and date. Will also have his pension Fund and registered number, which I trust your mother benefitted on your fathers death. If she didn't she can still claim, but imagine she already has received. Your fathers photograph and personal description. Any certificate numbers. If he joined any ships abroad without a passport will have various visa stamps in the back of book. If any with CCCP on will show he visited any of the Russian satellite countries. The Russians had a habit of stamping seamens books whether they had a passport or not and used to stamp all books on the ship. These old discharge books are now starting to appear in museums but in the 50"s were your bread and butter. Going back in time re pension, as your father was 25 years on British ships he would have been a paying in member for that length of time, a lot longer than me, so your mother would have or should have got 50 percent of his pension or and a lump sum on his death. I have no doubt she got this, but if she is suffering from loss of memory is best you confirm as don't think these rights are passed from wife to children. Regards JWS
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 28th August 2017 at 05:33 AM.

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