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Keith Tindell
29th November 2018, 11:38 AM
Although posted in trivia etc, i think the situation with Ukraine and Russia has a worrying development , i see today that although not a member, Ukraine has requested NATO help. If you look at the map, by closing that sea off to Ukraine it has shut off two thirds of Ukraine ports.Just the sort of conflict that has worldwide effect. As i recall Ukraine were going to join NATO, which would be bit of a worry for Russia. kt

john walker
29th November 2018, 01:58 PM
I have just looked at the BBC news sight and noticed that Angela Merkel has said that dialogue is the only solution to the problem. She is probably right regardless of the Ukraine's president asking NATO to send warships to the Sea of Azov. I just hope that she is speaking for Germany and not for the whole of NATO ?

Captain Kong
29th November 2018, 02:09 PM
It is events like this that cause World Wars.

Tony Taylor
29th November 2018, 02:56 PM
The Russians are probing all the time, just look at all the fairly recent events where they are implicated; it always draws the same response "who me? no not me guv.
I believe they have a long term strategy to take back all the previous Soviet controlled countries and their potential opposition deterrent forces are diminishing all the time, e.g. British Army in Germany - virtually non existent now, American will is diminishing, if they start to pull out then the door will be open to Putins hordes.

Red Lead Ted
29th November 2018, 03:37 PM
Agree Tony, The thing I cant get my head around is Putin seems to do exactly what he wants with no consequence's. He rules with an iron fist the Soviet Union has disbanded he is not the force he once was and needs a bit more than sanctions imposed by the west. He will overstep the mark one day and maybe that day has come with his antics in Ukraine. What is lacking in Europe is a true statesman Winston Churchill for example, He was hitlers demise and Putin needs to be made in this very dangerous world for everyone to be made to tow the line. Terry.

Keith Tindell
29th November 2018, 03:59 PM
Well, in terms of the only possible opposition to Putin, and no wonder the Yanks are baulking at the cost of NATO, there are only now 5 countries paying in to the kitty that they have all signed up to, USA , UK Poland Greece and Estonia, so your mighty Germans French Netherlands Spain etc etc,, all yap and no substance, never mind a federal army, they cannot even pay their dues to the only alternative. Its the one thing that i am fully behind Trump, kt

Les Woodard
29th November 2018, 09:35 PM
Just an observation from affar but has anyone noticed that nearly every time that a country is about to have an election that a conflict of sorts rears its head as they know that those in power are very often voted back in. Our lot in Oz would love to see a conflict happen before they go to the election. Best that they can do is to take some action from a bloody nutter and turn it into a terroist attack and in so doing foster more nutters to do the same just to bolster their chances of re election. Not saying this is what is happening in the Ukrain but makes one sceptical of those in power as they know that Putin will react so can be played like all those who think that they are the most powerful are at their weakest because of this attitude.

Des Taff Jenkins
30th November 2018, 01:09 AM
Hi Less.
Even blind Freddy could see that that clown in the Ukraine was going to loss the up coming Presidential election, I follow world politics fairly closely and something like this was on the cards, Porochenko has been flying close to the wind in his parliament, and expects the NATO to step in and help him every time he bleats which they have been very reluctant to do. When the Ukrainian navy ships {looked like a tug and a pleasure boat ] went through the passage they didn't as they should have gone to port towards the Ukraine ports but kept straight ahead into Russian waters. Didn't Britain shadow every Russian navy ship going through the Channel in case they strayed of course
Cheers Des

Keith at Tregenna
30th November 2018, 01:24 AM
Apparently, Trump has cancelled Putin meeting at G20
not certain if it was rain or over Ukraine standoff.

K.

happy daze john in oz
30th November 2018, 05:22 AM
Trump at the G20 meeting says he will not meet with Putin after the current situation developed.
Would have thought dialogue would have been the way to go.
Little point in placing sanctions on Russia, will do more harm to the west than Russia.
They can cut the gas and oil supply to the west and that is it.


As to NATO, bit like the UN, not a lot of teeth in it these days and Missy Merkel up on her perch will do little to help the situation.

Lewis McColl
30th November 2018, 05:26 PM
Agree Tony, The thing I cant get my head around is Putin seems to do exactly what he wants with no consequence's. He rules with an iron fist the Soviet Union has disbanded he is not the force he once was and needs a bit more than sanctions imposed by the west. He will overstep the mark one day and maybe that day has come with his antics in Ukraine. What is lacking in Europe is a true statesman Winston Churchill for example, He was hitlers demise and Putin needs to be made in this very dangerous world for everyone to be made to tow the line. Terry. Made to tow the Line??? or do you mean dance to Americas tune like the UK and other European countries have had to do for years??? That is why the Donald is not happy about the prospect of a European Army.

happy daze john in oz
1st December 2018, 05:39 AM
Made to tow the Line??? or do you mean dance to Americas tune like the UK and other European countries have had to do for years??? That is why the Donald is not happy about the prospect of a European Army.

Lewis, what exactly would a EU army look like and what use would it be??

j.sabourn
1st December 2018, 05:45 AM
If they want a European army all they have to do is start and re-advertise for the French Foreighn Legion. Make the money a bit better than formerly am sure they would get all the bodies they needed. JS
PS as an added incentive they could point out the attractions of the Casbah in Sfax in North Africa. That is if they still have a garrison in those parts. JS

j.sabourn
1st December 2018, 07:11 AM
#12... To act as Macrons bodyguard when times get rough ???.
JS

Captain Kong
1st December 2018, 09:55 AM
The French Foreign Legion were a waste of time in Viet Nam, we had to go and rescue the survivors.,
Their leaders were too arrogant, They were on the plains of Dien Bien Phu surrounded by hills,
"The Flip Flops will never get guns up there, we are OK down here",
The Viet Minh stripped the guns and took them up the hills on their bikes, and then shelled the hell out of them.
We had to pick up the survivors.

In a european Army , what language do you use????
french, ?german?? Dutch?, italian,? they were a waste of space. , Polish??
There would be chaos, the french Refuse to speak English.. The Italians would be trying to figure out who is the winning side and then joining up with them, same as the french they would be appeasing the opposite side. Total chaos.

j.sabourn
1st December 2018, 10:23 AM
They would be better off swelling the ranks of the Salvation Army. They would do more good. JWS.

Des Taff Jenkins
3rd December 2018, 03:54 AM
For European Army read Mien Kampf, the language would of course be German, Ve haff vays of making you do vahte ve vaunt ,the helmet will be the one with the bit cut out in the front so the people of low esteem from the East can see where they are going.
a bit like May being told what she will get and like it.
Cheers Des

Rodney Mills
3rd December 2018, 06:58 PM
#11 Lewis.
"Made to tow the line??? or do you mean to Americas tune like the UK and other Countries have had to do for years??? That's why the Donald is not happy about prospect of a European Army."

Q. How has the US MADE the UK and Europeans "Tow the line and dance to America's tune, and what was the tune you disagreed with?

That is not why the "Donald" is unhappy, it's because the VAST majority of European countries are not paying their financial dues today for European protection. The Monroe Doctoring was written to warn off Europe from medaling in the American Hemisphere, it later became a form of separation that meant, "and we will stay out of European affairs".

Periodically, someone will raise the issue that the US sat two wars out (basically until they were being won) and then they joined in. WW1 was a Royal family squabble, between a bunch of Queen Victoria's children and not a US problem. But Pres. Woodrow Wilson, making a big fuss over a leaked telegram that linked Germany with Mexico, the US was dragged in to provided fresh cannon fodder on "Flanders Field." That and the Lusitania used as a ploy to sway the American public.

WW11 was not America's fight either until Pearl Harbor, Yet America's treasure was used to finance it because of the special relationship of Roosevelt and Churchill. Yes Britain paid back its LOANS, but the US got stiffed from Russia and others, and the money spent for the Marshall plan, the rebuilding of Germany and Japan and setting them on the road to democratic governments. And the peace we enjoy today from these former enemies. Unlike WW1 when it was left to the European governments who went in and took and never gave Germany a chance to recover and look what happened? WW11.

Isolationism and stepping back into the original Monroe Doctoring mode is really gaining popularity, only partially to Donald Trump. The newspapers publish Europe's anti-American diatribes, they are becoming more frequent and I'm not talking gibes against Trump, the majority of Americans agree with that. It's against America.

happy daze john in oz
4th December 2018, 05:47 AM
Rodders, thanks for that bit of insight.
Could it be that the EU think that by raising an army they can stand alone if Russia or any other nation begins the next conflict?
If so I think they will be on the rough end of that one.
If they think that an army would be a threat to the USA then they must think again.
The world needs less, not more, armed forces if we ae ever to get close to some form of unity.

John Pruden
4th December 2018, 07:22 AM
Rodney a very interesting post. why cant we sink the same money to rebuild the middle east get their countries back up and running I think many would sooner be back in their homeland than as an immigrants in another that would sort many problems out in Europe? the mixtures of people in Europe is going to be mass revolts and soon it will be coming to a head? NATO could and should do a lot more to end troubles all over the world they should have the power to be the worlds police men and stamp out wars even before they get out of hand? just my view. jp

happy daze john in oz
5th December 2018, 05:56 AM
John, they could but that would pose a problem for the West.
assist them in growing into a world class nation and they w ll then pose a political threat to the West.
It is for that reason nothing is done to assist them beyond the basic assistance.