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j.sabourn
7th April 2018, 03:44 AM
According to the International Express this week. That is the sub headline of an article.

Only 5 of the RNs 19 frontline frigates and destroyers are available for operations, with just 2 in foreign waters, due to maintainance and crew pressures.
An acute manpower shortage has further aggravated the situation
The need to supply enough sailors for the new carrier Prince of Wales, led to the selling of the helicopter carrier HMS Ocean.
Story continues.
Why all the problems about spying all others have to do is read the International Express.
Would make a good cartoon for the Mad magazine....while Black spy is busy killing off the renegades and turned operatives.
White spy is just reading the newspaper.
JWS

happy daze john in oz
7th April 2018, 06:01 AM
There was a time when Britania ruled the waves.
Obviously she is now away somewhere, on holiday maybe?

robpage
7th April 2018, 06:31 AM
In honesty what are we talking about the Destroyers along the way there are also quite a few submarines floating around as well as minesweepers am Patrol boats so I'm assuming that we have still quite a few ships at sea even though were not running around the world showing them the white ensign

j.sabourn
7th April 2018, 07:43 AM
According to this article Rob the RN onsists of 19 warships. 5. In readiness of which 2 are in foreign waters. So you have at present. Time of printing 3 vessels to protect the British Isles,. If that is true what does that tell you? It tells others that the uk would not survive a naval attack . Doesn’t need spies around dockyards like of old , just read the newspapers you have your own ready made spy ring. Is no longer the silent service, read all about it as the news boys used to cry. Cheers JWS.

robpage
7th April 2018, 07:51 AM
https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/operations gives a ,more accurate picture

j.sabourn
7th April 2018, 10:53 AM
Like Ivan during the Suez crisis I was witness to the Mediterranean Fleet meeting up with think it was the US sixth Fleet in Valletta harbour in the 50s. Those sights will never be seen again as regards the British Navy . It was an awesome sight of raw naval power the likes of Britain will never see again, and again and that was only the Mediterranean Fleet. If had been combined with the Home Fleet what a picture that would have made. JWS

Red Lead Ted
7th April 2018, 11:00 AM
And lets not forget we are an island nation, Water Water everywhere and not a ship to spare. Disaster.............. :Sinking:

John Pruden
7th April 2018, 12:40 PM
if we stopped giving billions away to richer countries than ours we could/should have a far bigger navy? jp

robpage
7th April 2018, 12:59 PM
we will need a bigger navy to chuck the Spanish off our fishing grounds

Lewis McColl
7th April 2018, 01:32 PM
if we stopped giving billions away to richer countries than ours we could/should have a far bigger navy? jp

John with respect foreign aid cannot be blamed for everything not being as it should be in the UK.

Ivan Cloherty
7th April 2018, 01:44 PM
John with respect foreign aid cannot be blamed for everything not being as it should be in the UK.

Perhaps not Lewis, but if diverted to UK expenditure within the UK it would help defray the costs of keeping those who hate us and come to live here, it could still be called 'Foreign Aid'

Bill Cameron
7th April 2018, 02:11 PM
if we stopped giving billions away to richer countries than ours we could/should have a far bigger navy? jp
We cannot find crews to man the warships we have at this present time, maybe that’s why there is so few ships at sea.

vic mcclymont
7th April 2018, 02:11 PM
Fake news?five RN patrol ships are currently visiting Scottish ports.
Vic

j.sabourn
7th April 2018, 03:32 PM
#13.. Maybe got the press gangs out Vic, watch how you go JS

John Pruden
7th April 2018, 04:30 PM
bill 12# it must be getting like the army they are making marine commandos redundant with years left to serve and yet advertising on tv for more true bill? why.. jp

robpage
7th April 2018, 05:58 PM
seniority payments , recruits are cheaper

Bill Cameron
7th April 2018, 06:31 PM
bill 12# it must be getting like the army they are making marine commandos redundant with years left to serve and yet advertising on tv for more true bill? why.. jp
Cough cough, John the Royal Marines are part of the Royal Navy, the booties would not like you referring to them as pongos ;)

Lewis McColl
7th April 2018, 06:56 PM
It is a plan to trick the Russians into thinking it will be a walk in the park lol. The bear will encourage Argentina to make a move on the Falklands and back Argentina with what ever they want. That will test the special relationship with the Donald.
I think the world is in a very dangerous place just now.

vic mcclymont
7th April 2018, 08:35 PM
It would be interesting to see how our so called EU allies would react in that situation, Lewis. Let's face it their past track record leaves a lot to be desired.
Vic

robpage
8th April 2018, 03:03 AM
It's a bit more like a Backtrack record

j.sabourn
8th April 2018, 03:27 AM
Lets be honest, the western world relies on the United States for its equality in Shipping in the case of hostilities. Like the last world war it was the backing of the US that saved Australia from invasion, and the same applies today. While other countries have let their defences go belly up to save on money. Which was always going to be a false economy , the US has been left holding the baby. Trump is only speaking the truth when he demands that other countries should pay more appropriately into the kitty. The past is the past where The US took. A leading roll in world politics. People decry Trump For what he represents it’s a pity there weren’t a few more like minded patriotic politicians in the western world. God help Australia if the leader of the opposition ever gets in here as his insulting remarks before Trump was elected will probably be well remembered. JWS

Lewis McColl
8th April 2018, 08:55 AM
Why should they lift a finger if Argentina decided to have ago at taking the Falklands again. The UK are the ones that gave the EU the finger.

vic mcclymont
8th April 2018, 09:39 AM
Well Lewis, we were members of the exclusive club of wasters when the Falklands was attacked before and not one of our so called allies lifted a finger to help.
Vic

Ivan Cloherty
8th April 2018, 10:06 AM
Why should they lift a finger if Argentina decided to have ago at taking the Falklands again. The UK are the ones that gave the EU the finger.

Something to do with NATO methinks, where-in if one member (or their Dependencies) is attacked the other members are supposed to rally round, but don't hold your breath. It has nothing to do with whether or not we are part of the EU

Lewis McColl
8th April 2018, 10:07 AM
So the French did not stop selling and supplying Exocet missiles? Francois Mitterrand, had come to Britain's aid by declaring an embargo on French arms sales and assistance to Argentina. Or allow the RN and British forces to use West African ports en route to the Falklands.
As I said why should the EU now bother to come to the aid of the UK we want out so out we will go, but don't moan about it when the EU tells the UK you made your bed lie in it.

vic mcclymont
8th April 2018, 10:13 AM
Lewis, a team from Dessault fixed the firing mechanism on the Argentinian planes.
France refused to stop selling the missiles to Argentina. yes, the French assisted but a usual played both sides.
Belguim also refused to supply us with bullets and ammo.
The Americans supplied us with latest hardware and nformation.
The EU will crumble in a few years and will cause a hell of a lot of problems.
Vic

Lewis McColl
8th April 2018, 10:17 AM
Lewis, a team from Dessault fixed the firing mechanism on the Argentinian planes.
France refused to stop selling the missiles to Argentina. yes, the French assisted but a usual played both sides.
Belguim also refused to supply us with bullets and ammo.
The Americans supplied us with latest hardware and nformation.
The EU will crumble in a few years and will cause a hell of a lot of problems.
Vic
How France helped both sides in the Falklands War - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17256975)
Yes Vic they did , but not the official line as far as the French government were concerned.

Lewis McColl
8th April 2018, 10:24 AM
Something to do with NATO methinks, where-in if one member (or their Dependencies) is attacked the other members are supposed to rally round, but don't hold your breath. It has nothing to do with whether or not we are part of the EU

I would not be holding my breath either Ivan if you think that NATO would get involved in a Falklands conflict, NATO is toothless without the Americans. The rest of the EU as I say will tell the UK your problem you deal with it, and the simple fact is the armed forces have been stripped to the bare bones and I would be very surprised if we could or would want to deal with it again.

robpage
8th April 2018, 10:24 AM
the French technicians provided support to Argentina throughout including repairs to Exocet missile launchers as admitted by Herve Colin of Dassult , I bet a lot of widows hurt from that co-operatuion

vic mcclymont
8th April 2018, 10:27 AM
Lewis, read that, the Guardian reports UK ministers hatched a plan to hijack further missile being shipped by Dessault, which was 51% state owned.
The missiles were being shipped by a torturous route to Argentina.
Vic

Lewis McColl
8th April 2018, 10:32 AM
True Rob but that was a company and not the French Government. Also remember the government of the day in France and the UK were certainly at the opposite ends on political ideals.

- - - Updated - - -

#30 Vic I have read all there is on who helped who during the Falklands campaign or certainly what is available on social media exactly the same as we all do.

John Pruden
8th April 2018, 10:41 AM
boys that's called business wars all over are supplied by other countries how many of our troops are in Birmingham hospital with terrible injuries from munitions made in this country?? nato stands back yet again doing nothing a chemical bomb today in Syria killing women and children will nato step in NO what are we paying into a toothless tiger? we must have a proper navy granted the modern warships can do the same as ten older ones but they cant be everywhere numbers do matter we need a world police/army to many inocents being what they call collateral damage ? jp

j.sabourn
8th April 2018, 10:47 AM
#22 the eu gave very little assistance if any during the last go. In fact France was still supplying the Exocets to the argentine. The ones who gave the most assistance was Chile. What the yanks gave as regards technology re movements via satellites no one will ever know. What people believe and seems to have been lost in the euphoria of post world war 2 developements, that most country’s in Europe. Were pro Hitler and not what present day admirers make them out to be. Leopards do not change their spots . And are best left alone. As regards the Argentine they were mainly admirers of Hitler anyone visiting there in the 50s must have noticed the similarities . JWS

robpage
8th April 2018, 11:51 AM
when you watch the documentary on the flight of the Vulcan to bomb Port Stanley you realise how alone we werre

Lewis McColl
8th April 2018, 12:04 PM
JS please provide the link that says or proves that France continued to provide Exocets to Argentina after the French declared an arms embargo.

j.sabourn
8th April 2018, 12:18 PM
Word of mouth by those on the receiving end. If you think for one moment that British forces were unaware of the armoury the Argentines had you have very little idea of such campaigns. This is where the ever needful espionage comes into use. And as said Chile was very helpful. If you lived among naval personel during that time you might have had a clearer perspective. There is as much proof as the nerve gas used in London and the Middle East by others.JWS

robpage
8th April 2018, 01:06 PM
JS please provide the link that says or proves that France continued to provide Exocets to Argentina after the French declared an arms embargo.

How France helped both sides in the Falklands War - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17256975)

will that one do , or do you want another 10 , I don't sit here making it up

Lewis McColl
8th April 2018, 06:40 PM
That is exactly the same link I posted in #27 point out were it says in that link that France & the French government continued to supply Exocets to the Argentines after the campaign started and France imposed a military embargo on the sale of weapons to Argentina, so feel free to supply another 10.
Word of mouth by those on the receiving end is not proof. Sadly one thing the exocet did prove was that type 42 Destroyers and type 21 Frigates were one hit ships.
HMS Sheffield was destroyed by a missile that did not even explode.

Argentina successfully integrated the missile to its aircraft platform, the Super Etendard. Before the arms embargo the Argentinean Navy had adquired 5 of the air launched anti ship versions of the missile.
The Royal Navy had 15 surface combat ships armed with Exocets in the Falklands War.

I am not Brit bashing here think what you like. The point is our service personal have and still continue to be asked to serve with equipment that is just simply poorly designed. Say what you like they are not fit for purpose. Governments of the UK no matter which party are happy enough to chop the defence budget and then make a decision to send our forces into a conflict knowing fine well the equipment they have is in most cases rubbish or there is simply not enough to go around. Troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, the body armour was known to be not suitable as the company supplying the equipment had cut corners on quality and to keep the costs down.
A very good example of poor equipment was the Land Rovers that the RUC used during the troubles in N Ireland. The number of police officers killed by road side bombs was disgusting but yet these same Land Rovers were deemed to be fit for service with the Army in Iraq and the Balkan conflicts as well as Afghanistan. How many of our lads got blown to bits driving around on patrol in those death traps, still they are in service with the PSNI, a design that has been in service since the mid 1960's. Yes the politicians cry crocodile tears when they stand in front of the camera and talk about how saddened they are and offer there so called heart felt sympathy to the families who have lost loved ones, makes me sick , nothing but a bunch of self serving phoney bastards.

robpage
8th April 2018, 06:49 PM
Just explain to me then which bit of Dasult being largely owned by the French state have I missed out on . I believe there were 51% government owned . And I am not anti branch or anti Europe in fact contrary to that . But I do believe that place is like the Falkland Islands and where the population have an overwhelming desire to remain British should be allowed to do so this is one of the main things I had against Tony Blair beside some of the more obvious ones is that he was negotiating with the Spanish government over sovereignty in Gibraltar . The jammed exocet launchers were freed by the French technicians on their own admission

Lewis McColl
8th April 2018, 07:04 PM
Just explain to me then which bit of Dasult being largely owned by the French state have I missed out on . I believe there were 51% government owned . And I am not anti branch or anti Europe in fact contrary to that . But I do believe that place is like the Falkland Islands and where the population have an overwhelming desire to remain British should be allowed to do so this is one of the main things I had against Tony Blair beside some of the more obvious ones is that he was negotiating with the Spanish government over sovereignty in Gibraltar . The jammed exocet launchers were freed by the French technicians on their own admission

But not at the request of the French government!!!! and as is in the article you posted Argentina received no more weapons from France or any other EU country. I believe a shipment was intercepted which was in transit from our friends in Israel !!!

vic mcclymont
8th April 2018, 07:59 PM
Dig deep, France was threatening to supply Peru, which was a strong supporter of the Junta/
The French Government owned 51% of Dasult.
The French were playing both sides.
Vic

vic mcclymont
8th April 2018, 08:13 PM
France is taking the brunt of this post, they did co-operate with us and work with the enemy at the same time.
Belguim refused point bank to sell us (UK) bullets and ammo.
Spain was anti us and for the Argentinians.
Only the Americans supplied us with hardware.
Who needs the EU? Not us
Vic

robpage
8th April 2018, 08:18 PM
I think that the whole world thought but the British Lion has lost its teeth and died chewing away at its cage . Within hours The Royal Navy was heading south . The airforce were called in and asked if they could bomb the runway and crazily agreed against all the odds putting together 5 planes that has started to be scrapped . They pulled merchant ships and all kinds of things together and head it off and at that time remembering it well as the ferry that I was on was being measured up by the Royal Navy looking for ferries for Active Service I felt that that was a time when yet again Britain stood alone I didn't feel particularly the warm embrace of Uncle Sam or are European allies or NATO standing beside us and to be perfectly honest I thought Margaret Thatcher had bitten off more than even she could chew . So when you look back in history a Darkest Hour has often been when we are standing alone and when you look back in history that is when the brave British forces and the brave people of this country are at their st6rongest . My argument is based solely on the exocet missile killed people the missile was supplied by France and Dassult technicians from a company whose majority shareholding is held by the French government were complicit and correcting faults in the exocet system . Because of their actions British people sailors from the Royal Navy and the Merchant Navy died .

cappy
8th April 2018, 08:24 PM
France is taking the brunt of this post, they did co-operate with us and work with the enemy at the same time.
Belguim refused point bank to sell us (UK) bullets and ammo.
Spain was anti us and for the Argentinians.
Only the Americans supplied us with hardware.
Who needs the EU? Not us
Vic

##the sooner we dump europe the better .....then they can eat each other .....that is apart from the ones they have eaten already ......the belly will never be filled til the krauts have them all in hand ...cappy

Hugh
8th April 2018, 08:51 PM
My argument is based solely on the exocet missile killed people the missile was supplied by France and Dassult technicians from a company whose majority shareholding is held by the French government were complicit and correcting faults in the exocet system . Because of their actions British people sailors from the Royal Navy and the Merchant Navy died .

One of my shipmates that I was in basic training with (same class) 1976 was killed aboard HMS SHEFFIELD by Exocet strike in 1982 - Lest we forget.


Regards
Hugh

Lewis McColl
8th April 2018, 10:06 PM
No one can say the Falklands campaign was not a great victory. It was a shame that it ever came to conflict in the first place. A lot of young men from both sides died.
You had a military Junta in Argentina who needed something to take peoples minds off the state of the Argentina economy. So they thought an invasion of the Falklands would achieve this and for a time it did.
You also had an increasingly unpopular government in the UK had a similar problem and to the victor went the spoils. The Iron Lady gambled and, won 3 terms in office. Politicians yet again playing with young men's lives to further there own political career. Blair could be accused of doing the same thing.

Keith at Tregenna
8th April 2018, 10:56 PM
In his memoirs, former UK Defence Secretary Sir John Nott describes France as Britain's "greatest ally" during the Falklands

Before the war, France sold Argentina's military junta five Exocet missiles.

At the time, few suspected that the regime's longstanding claim on the Falklands would lead to war, and the sale went largely unnoticed. But when in May 1982 these Exocet missiles were used to strike Britain's HMS Sheffield and Atlantic Conveyor, with the loss of 32 British lives, near panic ensued in London.

At the start of the conflict, France's left-leaning president, Francois Mitterrand, had come to Britain's aid by declaring an embargo on French arms sales and assistance to Argentina.

He also allowed the Falklands-bound British fleet to use French port facilities in West Africa, as well as providing London with detailed information about planes and weaponry his country had sold to Buenos Aires.

Paris also co-operated with extensive British efforts to stop Argentina acquiring any more Exocets on the world's arms market.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/15/revealed-full-story-behind-sinking-of-falklands-warship-hms-sheffield

j.sabourn
8th April 2018, 11:39 PM
#43.. I had occasion to sail with one of those survivors off the Sheffield , which is the correct ship as I remember, he had vivid memories about it , and was thrown again into another situation which brought back memories , and after receiving his George Medal decided he was pushing his luck too far. Ask him about Exocets. I sometimes have Occassion to cross his path, but keep off the questions and answers bit. He told me his thoughts in confidence and that’s where they stay. JWS

j.sabourn
9th April 2018, 02:15 AM
Re the other post going on. Fouro askeda question about statements. Sorry Fouro but I don’t have the means of replying. To your post. So hopethatin itself answers your question. Cheers JWS.

Des Taff Jenkins
9th April 2018, 03:43 AM
Hi All.
Don't worry too much about it all, come around 2030 and I can see Britain getting back some of the 100,0000,000 pounds or so in foreign aid from India.
Then they can buy plenty of Naval ships, maybe from China, or some other equally well off country.
Cheers Des

happy daze john in oz
9th April 2018, 06:13 AM
That is the problem no w with any conflict around the globe, no one really knows who the enemy is!

Countries supplying arms to countries fighting against them and possibly not aware at the time as most of the buying is done at arms length from any gov, they do not want blood on their hands!

NATO, just like the UN is about as much use as the proverbial on a Bull.

A bunch of self serving persons more interested in playing politics than actually achieving any real outcome.

A core of members who can assay yea or nay to any proposal as to how it suits their own political end.

Russia and USA will use any other conflict to gain an edge claiming the other is the problem.
Global peace, forget it and just get on with you own life because there is nothing you or I can do about any of it.

Ivan Cloherty
9th April 2018, 06:45 AM
You also had an increasingly unpopular government in the UK had a similar problem and to the victor went the spoils. The Iron Lady gambled and, won 3 terms in office. Politicians yet again playing with young men's lives to further there own political career.

What was she supposed to do Lewis, roll over and say to Argentina, yes you can invade our lands, kill our subjects we wont defend them. Methinks your prejudices are showing again. As a political leader you have at times to take decisions that will involve your Armed Forces and I have no doubt our Armed Forces are fully aware that they will be called upon to enter conflict, and as for your line 'Politicians yet again playing with young men's lives to further there (their) own political career' it will probably rank as possibly one of the more stupid statements you have made, but then again I have noticed that you tremble when confronted with a woman's sharp tongue

j.sabourn
9th April 2018, 07:45 AM
I was certainly no disciple of Maggie, but do recognise she was the best around at the time. If you want an example of a poor caricature of a politician you have To go no further than our Tony Baloney selling the Crown Jewels so to speak , and when confronted said the subscriptions for the honours went into party funds. Please don’t insult anyone’s intelligence and ask for proof, it doesn’t take Sexton Blake to provide when the culprit admits to the offence. And the evidence is there to behold. Have you ever in a court of law or otherwise taken an oath on the Bible and swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, or would you at a guess rather take the 5th Amendment or maybe just cross your fingers and pretend it doesn’t count as had your fingers crossed. Cheers JWS

cappy
9th April 2018, 08:01 AM
###suppose we could have cut the falklands in half ...given the argies one half and called it vichy falklands

j.sabourn
9th April 2018, 08:10 AM
Cappy your ancestry I believe goes back to the Norsemen and to the Shetlands. When on supply boats had a Falkland Islander in the crowd. He settled in Lerwick and was the head boyo one year where they push the burning boat out. I asked him why he settled in Lerwick and he said the shetlands were very similar to the Falklands. I am sure they would not want to be invaded by a foreign power either. Cheers JS

Lewis McColl
9th April 2018, 08:16 AM
#52 well you have your opinion and I have mine just leave the personal insults out of it.

Ivan Cloherty
9th April 2018, 08:25 AM
#52 well you have your opinion and I have mine just leave the personal insults out of it.

Wasn't an insult Lewis, just an factual observation

cappy
9th April 2018, 08:32 AM
#52 well you have your opinion and I have mine just leave the personal insults out of it.

##nothing personal just as you have your opinion i have mine....

j.sabourn
9th April 2018, 08:34 AM
Just as a matter of interest how many actually saw their own reports put into the office department who did the crewing. I preferred it when it was done by word of mouth. And the person reporting on was present if he so wanted. Have even had certain types write out their own reports and is surprising how honest some are and don’t wish to make themselves out to be what they ain’t. Cheers JWS.

cappy
9th April 2018, 08:37 AM
Cappy your ancestry I believe goes back to the Norsemen and to the Shetlands. When on supply boats had a Falkland Islander in the crowd. He settled in Lerwick and was the head boyo one year where they push the burning boat out. I asked him why he settled in Lerwick and he said the shetlands were very similar to the Falklands. I am sure they would not want to be invaded by a foreign power either. Cheers JS

##well john as we still have family crofters up there ...i must agree on that...lol cappy

Lewis McColl
9th April 2018, 09:14 AM
Yes Cappy, completely agree opinions vary but there is never a need to make it personal.

vic mcclymont
9th April 2018, 09:16 AM
Post 46# Got red tinted glasses on again Lewis. "Blair could be accused of doing the same thing" in taking us to war .
Big difference, British people were threatened and the government of the day responded.
Blair promised in writing six months before the Iraq invasion that he would (UK) standby George Bush. There was no justification for going to war in Iraq, even the cobbled together WMD report by Campbell was a load of crap.
You cannot compete Thatcher and Blair did.

cappy
9th April 2018, 09:27 AM
Yes Cappy, completely agree opinions vary but there is never a need to make it personal.###whats personal the french split the country...ie vichy ......one of the options for those suggesting we shouldnt have gone to the falklands ...was as ie the french one ........dont dig a bigger hole ...you are determined to make it personal ...ok you can have that .....make of it what you want ......what gets me is french personel making sure the exocets worked correctly to target british forces now if that is personal as well then eat it up ......but never the less even with that skullduggery ..we kicked there asses good and proper .......suppose your views on the belgrano are different to most brits as well ......but there you are we have free speech on here.... so feel free

Lewis McColl
9th April 2018, 10:03 AM
Well chaps it is obviously a few are spoiling for a fight this morning enjoy your day.

cappy
9th April 2018, 10:12 AM
Well chaps it is obviously a few are spoiling for a fight this morning enjoy your day.

###discussion not fights ......words not blows ......views not tinted.. just truths.... .......have a good day

Red Lead Ted
9th April 2018, 10:25 AM
i Echo your sentiments Lew, They will get over themselves. In fact Cappy posted that whatever the decision of Administration was we all must accept it. I can never remember handing in a petition to any ships Skipper after a vote amongst the crew to bring back a seaman that had been sacked by the Skipper or shipping company {Administration } I am off out its a beautiful day and nothing and know one is going to spoil it. Have a good one lads Terry. :thumbsup:

Red Lead Ted
9th April 2018, 11:06 AM
Just before i go out to eat with my darling wife, A little reminder.

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ted they are the rules ...the admin will make the decision.... if the decision was by members votes you would be heavily outnumbered .....it appears there are you and two others against.... but many for.....brian will make the decision and the rest of us will abide without squarking.......cappy ps I gave this post a like.............................................. ....... BYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYE :thumbsup:

vic mcclymont
9th April 2018, 11:29 AM
Well chaps it is obviously a few are spoiling for a fight this morning enjoy your day.

Not spoiling for a fight, just pointing out the truth.
Vic

Jim Brady
9th April 2018, 11:52 AM
Vic,it's not what you say it's the way that you say it.
Regards.
Jim.B.

robpage
9th April 2018, 12:44 PM
If I accept all written and re-posted here then there were only 5 Exocet in Argentinian hands
3 were jammed on launchers , Aerospatial engineers after the declaration from France repaired those , French technicians under Aerospatial control

1 AM39 destroyed HMS Sheffield
2 AM39 Destroyed Atlantic Conveyor
1 Damaged HMS Glamorgan

that is a pretty good record for a country that had only two fire-able missiles at the start , maybe with a single hit the Atlantic Conveyor could have survived , Without help from Aerospatiale , not Dassult as I said earlier, technicians , after the French embargo , lives were put at risk ,Aerospatiale was at that time French government owned , the technicians worked for the French State ,

So were they under orders or traitors

Keith Tindell
9th April 2018, 01:10 PM
Of course you have to remember money has no conscience , i remember reading some where that the price of the exocet shot through the roof once they saw how effective it was, also the arms supply is big business for the UK as well as lots of other countries, so it follows that salesmen and saleswomen are rubbing their hands when trouble breaks out. How much of British arms are being used in Syria as we speak. Its a filthy business all round, kt

happy daze john in oz
10th April 2018, 06:32 AM
Lewis, along with all members is entitles to free speech.
But when using such we should not do so in a manner that will enrage or humiliate another member.

A point was made that 'Maggie' sent young men to fight.

The fact is any one who joins the armed forces should do so knowing that there may come a time when they may be sent to a filed of conflict.
If that scares you do not join up, conscription ended a long time ago.

But as with any conflict most of the 'workers', that is the base of the force are normally younger men and women.
So yes, 'Maggie' did send young men to fight, the old ones were most likely past it anyway.

robpage
10th April 2018, 06:58 AM
In a park at Netley in Southampton there is a Cemetery , it was attached to a long gone military hospital going back two hundred years , an awful lot of teenage soldiers lie there

Doc Vernon
10th April 2018, 07:13 AM
Well Rob
You have opened my mind after a long long time mate,i was taken to Netley Military Hospital when rushed there from I think was the Stirling Castle for a Burst Appendix Op.
The Rooms were mostly Single (small) ones with just the Bed and the necessary equipment. Could not swing a cat in one Room. These Rooms were as I can recall behind the large Main Hospital Building,a sort of Out house type Barrack Type Look with I would say about 30 or so Bedrooms. The Main Building was very Large !
But neat enough and the staff then were good!
I had written before about this but had forgotten the Hospital name .
After my Op think it was the second day,my Late brother came to visit me ,made me laugh ,that was a No No as it Hurt LOL
Anyway that night we actually crept out of there and caught a Bus to the City,and into the nearest Pub, (the Bus ride was thankfully short as the ride also hurt ) got nice and blind,and then back to the Hospital. The return trip never felt a thing!
Bad move! Next day was caught out and told off ,and all this with a Big Headache.

So that was it,stayed for another 6 days then out! And back on board!

Now another incident I recall and again I could not remember the name,but now it has come up I am also sure that the Cemetary is also the one me and my Late Brother spent a night at sleeping on a Gravestone. It was eerie and remember waking up with this shadow falling over us,that was spooky!
The things we got up to after a few Drinks! LOL

Keith Tindell
10th April 2018, 07:19 AM
Netley hospital, now demolished was famous for being where nurse Florence Nightingale worked, don't suppose she was the one looking after you Doc, only joking. When coming down on the ferry to the Island you can see whats left and the memorial, kt

robpage
10th April 2018, 07:29 AM
closed 1958 demolished 1966

Lewis McColl
10th April 2018, 10:18 AM
I had planned a road trip on the bike for April down through Spain to the Costa Blanca. Now deferred that trip until later in the year. Weather has been to bad and it is still snowing in the Pyrennes mountains. So as I am heading up to meet friends for a bike meet in Germany in a couple of weeks I have arranged to meet a pal on the way. We have decided to meet up in Verdun and will spend a few days visiting the battlefields and cemeteries. I have visited the Somme and I'm will be honest visiting these places is very humbling, my Grandad fought with the 36th Division at the Somme, he rarely talked about it.
Maybe the all politicians should visit places like this it might make them think long and hard before sending young men and women off to die.

Like a few on here I have had first hand experience of the horrors of war. When you put three of your ship mates into body bags and there bodies are burnt and broken smelling like a Sunday pork roast it tends to make you think long and hard about war and why there is always a better way to resolve differences. If that makes me a pacifist well just wish there were a lot more like thinking people around the world.26208262092621026211

Ivan Cloherty
10th April 2018, 12:20 PM
If that makes me a pacifist well just wish there were a lot more like thinking people around the world.[ATTACH=CONFIG]26208

I know we have our spats on here, but don't need to be a pacifist Lewis, if all politicians had served in the merchant navy where we follow the lore of the sea and help each other when in difficulty regardless of creed or colour then the world would be a safer place. I remember in cold war times going to the aid of Soviet and mainland China ships, and a Russian ship giving me aid when I needed it in Ethiopia, politics were never involved, we were seamen, we had a code, and we faced mutual dangers, the sea!

Lewis McColl
10th April 2018, 12:39 PM
Oh so true Ivan. The old saying, Old Generals never die just there privates. It is a worry, Putin has basically called out Trump and dared him to take military action against the Assad regime in Syria.
Have the politicos world wide learnt nothing or is the power of the lobbyists greater in the halls of power pushing an agenda from the weapons and arms producers!!! tick tock tick tock.26214

Keith Tindell
10th April 2018, 12:56 PM
Very interesting future, what would your next course of action be Lewis ?, not meant to be confrontational by any means. It seems Putin has been poking the west for some time, in my opinion out manoeuvreing
Obama etc, but how long do we allow him to go on?, what will Trump do??, i don't know the answer. I suspect Trump is going to hit Syria in some way with rockets, and then its your move Putin. One thing for certain, dangerous times ahead, my opinion is Putin should be wary as Trump is a loose cannon , kt

Keith Tindell
10th April 2018, 05:18 PM
Just a thought, will the yanks demolish Assads main residence overnight ?, remember its what they did to Gaddafi, i think he lost a son in that raid, and it did shut him up for a while, kt

cappy
10th April 2018, 05:35 PM
##trump will give them a wack.....it will keep his carry on with stormy off the front pages for a while ....russia will do no more than they are doing now ...putin called trumps bluff in syria.......and trump will trump his game ... along with us and some europeans......iran will squark but after iraq.....that is all they will do ........thats my view ......russia is in irons now they have been called out by trump.....the 5 ships arnt needed our aircraft carrier down there is cyprus

Lewis McColl
10th April 2018, 10:58 PM
Keith, If you look at a time line from the Regan / Gorbachev era. I think the west have done more than there fair share of poking Russia. Take the Ukraine for instance. Home of the Russian Black sea fleet. The West/EU have been actively encouraging Ukraine to become a Western Allie. No way was Russia ever going to allow that hence Russia taking over the Crimea. A weak US president Obama had his head buried in the sand along with other Western leaders. The Iranians have been allowed to continue there peaceful nuclear power programme (of course it is peaceful) believe that um!!! I am not convinced. The Russian had there asses kicked in Afghanistan and went home and licked there wounds. They have been reasonably peaceful?? on the world stage compared to Western nations. Two Gulf wars, Involvement in Libya(regime change) look at the problems that has lead to !! Also western involvement in the Balkans, which from a humanitarian point of view was the right thing to do. Only real conflict that Russia have had was they kicked ass in Chechnya, which basically was an internal conflict.
https://www.bing.com/videos/searq=mikhail+gorbachev&&view=detail&mid=FA53442FAC084E1C2B1EFA53442FAC084E1C2B1E&rvsmid=F97778AEF89902CA47ACF97778AEF89902CA47AC&FORM=VDQVAP
You asked what would I do !!! If it were me I would try and work with the Russians, the common enemy is the threat of isl-m. America and the west have armed a group in Syria because Assad is a Russian puppet. I sailed with a young 3rd mate in my last company NGSCO he was a Syrian a really clever lad, nice lad. He said if the west get involved in Syria and try to remove Assad it will lead to another world war. Looks as if he could be right. If Trump has a go at Syria and the Assad regime, Putin will not do a Khrushchev26222 and back down as he did over the Cuban missile crisis. Putin has the Russian people backing him, he has made Russia a word power again, and a very powerful one at that. I think that Atomic clock is about to take another tick tock closer to midnight. I also think that Trump & Putin will not use there own back yards to have a go at each other. Europe as usual will be the play ground and an early casualty will be the UK. Let's face it unless we are prepared to go nuclear Russia could be in London in a month, they already own the place now as it is.

j.sabourn
10th April 2018, 11:18 PM
During the days of the Czars Russia never had the opposition they now have to their every move. The Russian people have not changed just their politics . As their politics is their business as everyone crows about religion having the same advantages. The west should think before it leaps into any situation that is going to be impossible to back out of. I have never looked up the history of the Ukraine but I always believed that when Hitler invaded it, which held up his agenda to actually invade Russia itself, it was part of the Russian bloc counties and would have been today without previous hostility’s part of the Russian Federation. It as say have not looked up its general history. The present arguments for and against certain civil governments all comes down to politics. As all wars are started in this way. This doesn’t mean you have to back down from any bully , just protect what you have, and the answer is not by disarmament of defence forces. The uk couldn’t put up a national defence at the moment and any attacking force would if necessary take London well within a month probably within a couple of days with the assistance of the possible already fifth column already established. Politicians are good at threats but leave others to carry them out. JWS

robpage
11th April 2018, 04:13 AM
I think the Politics of The Middle East are best left to those who live there I don't know if president Assad is a good guy or a bad guy but I do know the more we metal the more people die last time that this really came up and I believe it was David Cameron put it to Parliament Parliament voted and we didn't go into Syria I have said before we're a little country who have for many hundreds of years been the world's policeman at Great cost to herself on many occasion I think it's time we put her feet up retired and let somebody else do it

j.sabourn
11th April 2018, 05:12 AM
If other countries had minded their own business Rob it would probably be all over bar the shouting. The countries that went in with all the fire power they had it should have been. It was a half hearted attempt as all one can say. If thats the best they can do, doesn’t say much for a big one when it comes to pass. All the talk about saving lives has done very little and may have even caused more. This regime change is not for others to stick their nebs in, unless they are threatened themselves. Has been at the root of all the subsequent problems including illegal immigration. Some have never heard of the saying , if your going to do a job, then do it right. JWS.

robpage
11th April 2018, 05:34 AM
Assad as a strong man leader kept order ,and kept the extremists down , he may not be a cuddly friendly man but I am convinced middle eastern countries thrive better on powerful leadership , We devote so much to ensuring everyone's human rights and to protect the people from the monsters and maniacs that rule them , let us fix Britain first

j.sabourn
11th April 2018, 05:45 AM
I believe he is also married to an English woman. Does this give him any English advantages as to claiming asylum if he lives that long. As soon as someone takes the decision to bump him he”s gone. Probably his wife and family may even be domiciles there in any case. Maybe rented Brian’s house while he’s travelling the globe. Hope they keep it tidy for his return. They may even encourage the neighbours to be more friendly and organise a party for his return. If your reading this Brian see how we look after your welfare. Cheers Rashid Avagoodtrip.

John Pruden
11th April 2018, 05:48 AM
rob i posted years ago saddam kept his foot on the throats of his people cadafi did the same now look at the state of the middle east a despot is needed to keep all the factions in check life is cheep out there but gassing that is not human to use chemicals on the none combatens not women and kids take one president out and there is always another will take over? jp

happy daze john in oz
11th April 2018, 06:35 AM
I doubt we will ever get the truth about who gassed who.
But if it was Asad then he is only acting in the same manner as Sadam who gassed many of the people.
Yes he kept them in check but at what cost to human life?

From what I know the average Russian is no different to you or I, all they want is to live their life in peace, not pieces.

But politician have a different view of life, to many it is just another item of use when they need it.

The Syria mess will blow over and I doubt anything will be done.
As long as Russia has a veto on the UN then the UN is useless.

Keith Tindell
11th April 2018, 06:46 AM
I tend to agree with most said, we have a good example of what happens when you remove a dictator in Libya, if you remove Assad what will follow ?, absolute carnage with all factions fighting for power.Libya today is just one huge mess, created by the west, kt

Trevor Bodiam
11th April 2018, 08:03 AM
Re: Navy is now down to five ships.

Very interesting thread and some really diverse points of view.
Lewis’ comment where he states quote -
Have the politicos world wide learnt nothing or is the power of the lobbyists greater in the halls of power pushing an agenda from the weapons and arms producers!
The problem is that it is one big circle, that is Politics-Global Companies-Major Banks and Financing-Think Tanks- International legal firms; they are the players who are interchangeable who make all the decisions.
Make no mistake, there is still a very active ‘old boys club’ controlling most of the big decisions that affect us all.
Where do ex-pollies go when out of office, usually to one of the others and vice versa.
Our whole system has major flaws and needs a complete overhaul.
Not too long ago i finished reading “The Establishment & how they get away with it” by Owen Jones. Even if a quarter of what he claims is fact{and i believe most if not all is] we should be very concerned for the future.
Re the Falklands war, another great book is Vulcan 007 by Rowland White, the true facts about the astonishing planning and courage of the airmen and women who backed and carried out the mission with the old bombers.

cappy
11th April 2018, 08:33 AM
Re: Navy is now down to five ships.

Very interesting thread and some really diverse points of view.


Re the Falklands war, another great book is Vulcan 007 by Rowland White, the true facts about the astonishing planning and courage of the airmen and women who backed and carried out the mission with the old bombers.

###i would be suprised if that was written by lewis ......it appears to be a view of some highly educated politico ........not saying lewis is not highly educated of course ...but it is a precis extemely politically motivated .....whether it is the view of the ordinary man or not is surely to be mooted ....a bit too highbrow for myself ......but a view none the less....and of course free speech on here is our ist priority .......cappy

Keith Tindell
11th April 2018, 08:46 AM
Agree there Cappy, buts its nice to have a debate among us all without descending in to insults. On this particular subject, we are all out our depth i suspect, but we all agree i think that its getting dodgy whatever action is taken.kt

j.sabourn
11th April 2018, 09:05 AM
All The average person wants to know is to be kept in the picture with truthful reasons. Not camouflaged in political language. If one has to die an unnatural death the reason for doing so is always nice to know. All the deaths caused through terrorism of the past few years on downed aircraft and random slaughter on the streets has to have a base root cause. Caused by whom would be nice to be confirmed. Actions that should have been taken to reduce such happening. And future actions that should be taking and if not the reason why. Not the usual cry of it’s the law, if the law doesn’t work then change it. Anarchy has been caused many times in different parts of the world for the people in power ignoring the people they are supposed to lead , or dictate to, or just treat as they feel. They bring it on themselves when they fail in those duties. The biggest failure in Europe and is my opinion only was the lifting of border restraints, and following the guidelines or.trying to accomodate old worn out agreements of 1951 vintage. That was a different century.JWS

robpage
11th April 2018, 09:23 AM
In giving cross / no border freedoms to the good guys , the terrorists get it too ,

happy daze john in oz
11th April 2018, 12:39 PM
No doubt you have the same system in UK.
A poli does a few terms in parliament, maybe gets to be a cabinet minister.
Looses his seat and the next day is offered some post as an ambassador or head of some company.

It keeps it in the club so the only ones who have any control know who the other guy is.

You keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

We as the 'electorate' have no understanding of how it works, who controls whom, and what is behind it all.

The mushroom treatment was developed by the political masters.

cappy
11th April 2018, 01:51 PM
###we had it on tele last night ..tony bliars deputy prime minister of this country ...LORD prescott in a bleedin sausage factory.......isnt that about the true capability of the ex at times prime minister of this country......why should england tremble...cappy

Doc Vernon
11th April 2018, 08:12 PM
This thread has for most been going well,and I have no complaints as yet so I ask that we just keep as such and also Non Personal please!
Thanks to ALL.

Lewis McColl
11th April 2018, 09:08 PM
Disappointing, this was a good thread and it has been reduced to talking about Lord Prescott and a sausage factory.

Keith at Tregenna
11th April 2018, 09:24 PM
A few years ago I was both invited to and attended the Royal Mail event: Celebrate the Work of the Merchant Navy: Looked after by John Sail and Tim Brant MNA. I was representing the Merchant Navy Association (Wales) Barry branch and in the company of Joe Earl: Lord Prescott was the guest speaker aboard the President on the Thames and for all said about the man, he certainly spoke up well for the MN, had a drink with him afterwards and he then also came over as an intelligent and nice chap.

Keith.

Lewis McColl
11th April 2018, 09:33 PM
Like a lot of folk in the public eye it is always easy to pick faults. But to go from ships steward to deputy PM he certainly must have had a wise head on his shoulders. Certainly a lot more upstairs than some of his detractors.

j.sabourn
12th April 2018, 12:08 AM
His lack of knowledge may have been his attraction to any PM looking over his shoulder. Keep your enemies close by is always a good idea of any leader of any party. JWS

robpage
12th April 2018, 02:47 AM
As a casual Observer in 1966 I don't think but the Seaman strike was a resounding victory and I always felt looking at it from the outside but it was totally politically motivated and lead poorly . There are a few scheme said lord John has been involved with crazy scheme involved in housing and I don't think he did the fire brigade any favours when he tried to reduce the number of Fire Brigade call centres but as a man of his time he fitted in well with Tony Blair's government obviously needed him

j.sabourn
12th April 2018, 03:05 AM
The strike was a farce Rob well organized to show the Unions in a bad light and was the beginning of the end for the British M.N. Very astutely carried out by Harold Wilson at the time and probably in connivance with both sides of the House. The average seaman was no better off financially, it may have looked that way on paper, but cash in hand otherwise. The first instruction I got was to stop all overtime except essential to working the ship. De manning started from that day, when small rules were changed to suit. e.g. From 3 men on a watch went down to 2. Today if had 2 men on a watch you would think of it as luxury. How people adjust when they don't know any better. Today you have vessels in high density shipping lanes with 1 on the bridge and no one down below. Some of the foreign ships I brought down on the coast here was quite normal for the one watchkeeper on the bridge to have a button he had to press at frequent intervals , if he didn't an alarm would go off in the Masters cabin to show he may have fallen asleep. As to the post on him being a good speaker wasn’t his silver spoon tongue due to him having been a silver waiter. That’s all a politician needs is to be able to talk , however actions speak louder than words , so he was probably. In the best role of his life span being a politician of any kind. JWS.

robpage
12th April 2018, 03:32 AM
After seeing Lord John's antics over the last fifty years fail to impress me , look at his Pathfinder housing scheme to start

happy daze john in oz
12th April 2018, 05:52 AM
Lewis, in a sausage factory, Pork maybe as he was a bit of a pig.

But the demise of the MN, like so may other industries and events, was no doubt a political move.
But not the only one, closing the coal mines now in favor of clean energy?

A classic example was the smart meter.
My understanding developed in UK but no one wanted it.

Guy comes out to Oz with it and convinces a state Labor gov that it will make the collection of energy use easier.
Gov goes for it, but the public do not realize that with this system your usage is monitored every 30 minutes with higher rates at peak time.
Suddenly the UK gov wants it and now you have them.

But here in Oz the 30 minute split is to be reduced to 5 minutes.

A smart water meter is being developed along with one for gas.

As scientists develop ne systems they need to sell them, so off to the gov with this new whizz bang idea that they want to make money out of and the gov also sees money in it for them.

cappy
12th April 2018, 07:56 AM
Disappointing, this was a good thread and it has been reduced to talking about Lord Prescott and a sausage factory.

##a bit like punch and judy lewis ....then along came the crocodile and ate all the sausages......

Lewis McColl
12th April 2018, 09:14 AM
Well Doc I suppose this thread has run it's course seeing as the wise man from the east decided to make it political #98 or is it okay just as long as it is Labour politicians are being slagged off.

Doc Vernon
12th April 2018, 09:45 AM
As I had said Lewis

This thread has for most been going well,and I have no complaints as yet so I ask that we just keep as such and also Non Personal please!
Thanks to ALL.


Just trying to keep something going ,I know there is a wee bit of Politics but am hoping that it will not get out of hand otherwise I will have to CLOSE SHOP!
Thank You

cappy
12th April 2018, 09:45 AM
Well Doc I suppose this thread has run it's course seeing as the wise man from the east decided to make it political #98 or is it okay just as long as it is Labour politicians are being slagged off.

###well lewis could it be you have appointed yourself an administrator now ..or are you just snitchin......i suspect the latter

j.sabourn
12th April 2018, 10:09 AM
#108... or as Judy said ... there’s no show without Punch. JS
Ref. The recent post on credit cards I’m thinking off getting mine made in chocolate, any signs of anyone trying to fiddle with and I’m going to eat it. JWS.

Ivan Cloherty
12th April 2018, 10:19 AM
Well Doc I suppose this thread has run it's course seeing as the wise man from the east decided to make it political #98 or is it okay just as long as it is Labour politicians are being slagged off.

With all due respect Lewis, your post 109 does seem a bit sanctimonious after your post #46, just an observation, nothing more.

Keith Tindell
12th April 2018, 10:31 AM
Polite reminder Lewis. I see your post on Dianne Abbot was blocked by Doc this very morning, is she political, again a polite observation. If you don't like it, don't read it, regards KT

Lewis McColl
12th April 2018, 11:29 AM
###well lewis could it be you have appointed yourself an administrator now ..or are you just snitchin......i suspect the latter

No Cappy, not trying to run the forum leave that to others, just remember though those egg shells you are walking on, be careful they do not crack on you. You need to realise respect is a two way street. Failure to do that and we will both be I hot water.

Lewis McColl
12th April 2018, 11:36 AM
With all due respect Lewis, your post 109 does seem a bit sanctimonious after your post #46, just an observation, nothing more.

Ivan read the #46 again ,I was critical of Mrs T & Mr B.I let it lie there now as we have been sailing blues seas now for a number of weeks and one can only hope that course can be set again.

cappy
12th April 2018, 11:40 AM
No Cappy, not trying to run the forum leave that to others, just remember though those egg shells you are walking on, be careful they do not crack on you. You need to realise respect is a two way street. Failure to do that and we will both be I hot water.

##lewis dont patronise me

Lewis McColl
12th April 2018, 11:47 AM
Would I ever, just giving you some good advice, others told you yesterday to wind your neck in and leave personal insults out. But no here you are again. If you want to have a slanging match let's move it to personal messages and clear the air. Your call.

cappy
12th April 2018, 12:14 PM
Would I ever, just giving you some good advice, others told you yesterday to wind your neck in and leave personal insults out. But no here you are again. If you want to have a slanging match let's move it to personal messages and clear the air. Your call.
###i dont require to listen to any advice from you ..slanging matches won you one exit on this site ......i have mental picture of you very red in the face.....almost purple...... ....im finished on this lewis .....im worried you would snitch again ...bon jour

Lewis McColl
12th April 2018, 05:05 PM
Cappy if this is your idea of what a snitch is then I guess perhaps I am a snitch.

A few weeks ago Cappy became very anti with myself and others on the forum. He also made offensive remarks about how the site was being administered. Wisely some members asked him to cool his jets, he admitted he was walking on egg shells. Him and several others raised the issue again concerning Marian and thankfully that was nipped in the bud by yourselves.
We have been having some great posts of late and the forum is a fun place to be. Now and again we have the odd disagreement but most of us genuinely I believe are making the effort to keep it civil.
This morning I log on and read this post. Sorry but can you have a word as to me Cappy is well on his way to making an omelette again if he keeps cracking eggs.
Best regards
Lew
Re: Navy is now down to five ships.

Originally Posted by Trevor Bodiam
Re: Navy is now down to five ships.

Very interesting thread and some really diverse points of view.
Lewis’ comment No.79 where he states quote -
Have the politicos world wide learnt nothing or is the power of the lobbyists greater in the halls of power pushing an agenda from the weapons and arms producers!


###i would be suprised if that was written by lewis ......it appears to be a view of some highly educated politico ........not saying lewis is not highly educated of course ...but it is a precis extemely politically motivated .....whether it is the view of the ordinary man or not is surely to be mooted ....a bit too highbrow for myself ......but a view none the less....and of course free speech on here is our ist priority .......cappy.
Now Cappy even Keith asked you to leave out the insults. AS you say will leave it now.

cappy
12th April 2018, 05:12 PM
Cappy if this is your idea of what a snitch is then I guess perhaps I am a snitch.

A few weeks ago Cappy became very anti with myself and others on the forum. He also made offensive remarks about how the site was being administered. Wisely some members asked him to cool his jets, he admitted he was walking on egg shells. Him and several others raised the issue again concerning Marian and thankfully that was nipped in the bud by yourselves.
We have been having some great posts of late and the forum is a fun place to be. Now and again we have the odd disagreement but most of us genuinely I believe are making the effort to keep it civil.
This morning I log on and read this post. Sorry but can you have a word as to me Cappy is well on his way to making an omelette again if he keeps cracking eggs.
Best regards
Lew
Re: Navy is now down to five ships.

Originally Posted by Trevor Bodiam
Re: Navy is now down to five ships.

Very interesting thread and some really diverse points of view.
Lewis’ comment No.79 where he states quote -
Have the politicos world wide learnt nothing or is the power of the lobbyists greater in the halls of power pushing an agenda from the weapons and arms producers!


###i would be suprised if that was written by lewis ......it appears to be a view of some highly educated politico ........not saying lewis is not highly educated of course ...but it is a precis extemely politically motivated .....whether it is the view of the ordinary man or not is surely to be mooted ....a bit too highbrow for myself ......but a view none the less....and of course free speech on here is our ist priority .......cappy.
Now Cappy even Keith asked you to leave out the insults. AS you say will leave it now.

##you must be in a revolving door youve left it three times today ......for the second time today bon jour .....

Lewis McColl
12th April 2018, 05:22 PM
Showing your ignorance now Cappy that should be Bonne soirée

cappy
12th April 2018, 05:33 PM
##put some grease on that revolving door you must be bloody dizzy by now...good neet hinny and bon jour..

Lewis McColl
12th April 2018, 05:40 PM
Bonne soiree, Cappy go steady on the Cognac now.

cappy
12th April 2018, 05:44 PM
Bonne soiree, Cappy go steady on the Cognac now.

##just to finish off on a note so you can educate this ignorant geordie whats the french word for snitch.....lol cappy

robpage
12th April 2018, 06:05 PM
sometimes silence is better than an overwhelming desire to gain the last word , regardless of whatever language , I don't ,. care if we are jour , soiree or nuit . ENOUGH !

Doc Vernon
12th April 2018, 07:43 PM
Gentlemen both (cappy and Lewis) this has gone on long enough between you two,there is bad blood here and I cannot see it getting any better,but can now issue an open Warning to both that this must now STOP!
You are both ruining a good Thread and getting back to the ways we don't want here!
In future use your Private message Box to communicate .
If any one of you again cross the line with this silly and really unnecessary trash I will have no other alternative to put a time Ban on you both ,(which could be anything from a week to 2 Years) this I really don't want to do so PLEASE! from now on either leave each other alone or pay the price! Your Choices! No more personal name mentioning or the likes!
Take heed both of you
Thank you

cappy
12th April 2018, 07:51 PM
Gentlemen both (cappy and Lewis) this has gone on long enough between you two,there is bad blood here and I cannot see it getting any better,but can now issue an open Warning to both that this must now STOP!
You are both ruining a good Thread and getting back to the ways we don't want here!
In future use your Private message Box to communicate .
If any one of you again cross the line with this silly and really unnecessary trash I will have no other alternative to put a time Ban on you both ,(which could be anything from a week to 2 Years) this I really don't want to do so PLEASE! from now on either leave each other alone or pay the price! Your Choices! No more personal name mentioning or the likes!
Take heed both of you
Thank you

no prob to me vernon i can keep stum cappy

cappy
12th April 2018, 08:01 PM
Gentlemen both (cappy and Lewis) this has gone on long enough between you two,there is bad blood here and I cannot see it getting any better,but can now issue an open Warning to both that this must now STOP!

Take heed both of you
Thank you

###mebbee could stand two weeks vernon but at 78 this year cant promise to do 2 years...lol cappy

robpage
12th April 2018, 08:06 PM
There is no chance of you getting time off for good behavior though is there ? . I was listening to something the other day and I'm only 69 this year that when We Were Younger but the average life expectancy of a man was 70 years so in a couple of years time I beat it you've beat it well we must have lived a healthy life despite the booze and fags . I reckon if we hadn't smoke and hadn't drank there we live to be 100 unless of course hanging around bad women shortens your life

Doc Vernon
12th April 2018, 08:09 PM
Will be joining you at 78 this Year cappy,so none of us could afford 2 Years .
Cheers

cappy
12th April 2018, 08:13 PM
Will be joining you at 78 this Year cappy,so none of us could afford 2 Years .
Cheers

##well we are a good vintage .....like broon ale.....lol cappy

Keith at Tregenna
12th April 2018, 08:45 PM
Re: Navy is now down to five ships.

Out of interest only, how many ships have the Russians got ?

Keith.

Lewis McColl
12th April 2018, 09:14 PM
One thing for sure they have just been out gunned tonight in Moscow by the gunners, hard slog though.
According to Google they have a bigger surface fleet now than the USA and 50 more on order. So 300 + I would think don't know about the sub fleet.

Keith at Tregenna
12th April 2018, 09:17 PM
Not been concerned before but if you took us, USA and allies guess we would have more ?

Keith.

Lewis McColl
12th April 2018, 09:27 PM
I would be more concerned about who will push the Red Button , let's face it the Americans have already used the big one twice. If Russia make a move I think they would by pass Europe and just take the UK , that is NATO split in two. They will not make the same mistake as Hitler. Now the worry is if the UK went Nuclear. Russia could take several nuke strikes but the UK a few and it is not the bang but what comes with it.

Keith at Tregenna
12th April 2018, 09:42 PM
Apparently ? Russian state TV anchor told viewers the best food to pack for WW3 bomb shelters and advises iodine can protect against radiation.


Would early years advice here suffice it was place a brown paper bag over your head and place your head between your knees !

K.


.

Lewis McColl
12th April 2018, 10:11 PM
Apparently ? Russian state TV anchor told viewers the best food to pack for WW3 bomb shelters and advises iodine can protect against radiation.


Would early years advice here suffice it was place a brown paper bag over your head and place your head between your knees !

K.


.

And kiss you ass good bye. Also on the news Russia have put Military police into Douma the scene of the alleged chemical attack. They say their presence is there to maintain civil order. There is no mention of a cleanup of any chemical residue. Also I would imagine they will prevent any western inspection of the area , certainly not while there maybe proof lying around. I think Putin will up the number of military advisors in Syria.If the USA carry out missile strikes and any Russian personal are casualities that will be the excuse Putin will use and he will launch an air strike on any American ships in and around Syrian waters. Keep an eye on news of the Russian Black sea fleet movements.
Call me doom and gloom , but I don't think Putin will back away from a fight with the west. Not again like they did in Cuba.

Keith at Tregenna
12th April 2018, 10:19 PM
Apparently ? Russian state TV anchor told viewers the best food to pack for WW3 bomb shelters and advises iodine can protect against radiation.


Would early years advice here suffice it was place a brown paper bag over your head and place your head between your knees !

K.
.

And kiss you ass good bye.

About the same as the 60's then.

The old, Two Hopes - Bob Hope and No Hope ?

K.

Keith at Tregenna
12th April 2018, 11:36 PM
Apparently ? Russian state TV anchor told viewers the best food to pack for WW3 bomb shelters and advises iodine can protect against radiation.


Would early years advice here suffice it was place a brown paper bag over your head and place your head between your knees !

K.

.


Apparently, Russian ships set sail from Syrian HQ ahead of US airstrikes: Satellite images show 11 vessels have deserted Tartus port - but are they fleeing or preparing to shoot down missiles?

Guess all will be revealed soon ?

K.

j.sabourn
12th April 2018, 11:47 PM
#130... Soussant neurve or something like that Rob,even the number summons up visions. The good old age of 3 score and 10 is quite true. I died then and now just a ghost of former self. Make hay while the sun shines. JS

Keith at Tregenna
13th April 2018, 12:03 AM
Is that more like 89 including value added tax ?

K.

.

Des Taff Jenkins
13th April 2018, 12:57 AM
Hi All.
Trouble is Trump and his tweeting has put him in a corner, instead of phoning Putin and getting him to agree to an inspection of that so called gas attack he had to blow his mouth off, besides how could there be Russian troops in the same streets surely they wouldn't drop gas bombs on their own troops? On the subject of that gas attack according to my wife who has an excellent recall on faces, some of the children in that clip appeared in the earlier one of a gas attack.
I'm glad I'm living down here, as I think we are closer to an atomic war than we ever were.
Cheers Des

j.sabourn
13th April 2018, 02:13 AM
#143... That’s quite possible Des, the media are dab hands at inserting library pictures into most stories. I wouldn’t be complacent about living down here though, we may become a target for a smaller residential country for anyone wanting to use as a warning to what they are capable of. Cheers JWS.

robpage
13th April 2018, 03:02 AM
Personally my feeling is that trying to destabilise Syria and trying to remove president Assad whether you like him or not was the start of letting Isis loose who saw Assad being defeated a big mistake on their part Assad had a huge Ally in Mother Russia . I am all for Britain standing against gas attacks but as part of Nato only we're talking about a Anglo American Franco Alliance and I wonder currently that is two people out of Europe and The Americans where are the rest of the 27 States we don't hear that Bulgaria or Hungary or Germany are going to put their troops or their equipment out on the front line so it looks like we're off yet again to fight somebody else's battle in the Middle East I think it's time that we sheathed the sword and let the rest of the world go by

j.sabourn
13th April 2018, 05:30 AM
If British forces are still using Cyprus as a base hope they have deep shelters. If it comes tit for tat they stand to be now on alert. JWS.

robpage
13th April 2018, 05:57 AM
I believe the RAF still have RAF akrotiri as an air base on Cyprus

happy daze john in oz
13th April 2018, 06:02 AM
Our Donald and out Vladimir are having fun at our expense.

Neither will start a war by themselves.
If push comes to shove there may well be conflict but it will be brought about in such a manner that each will accuse the other without either getting the blame.

Whilst we may not be allowed to discuss politics on site, In a manner, that should be respectful of the other person, the fact is that our daily lives are totally controlled by what goes on in USA, Russia, China and a few others.

Like it or not they will do what they want and there is nothing we can do to stop it.

vic mcclymont
13th April 2018, 09:00 AM
Don't know what you are worried about, according to conspiracy theorists the world will end on the 23 of April.
On this date the planets will align and a virgin will appear in the skies, before planet X which is hiding behind the moon will wreck the earth. This same planet was due to appear last September, but failed to show.
Make the most of the time available. Lol)
Vic

Lewis McColl
13th April 2018, 09:07 AM
Vic that planet is being manned by SNCF drivers lol.
23rd of April just my luck as Uncle Ernie dropped me a good wedge this month.

Keith Tindell
13th April 2018, 09:20 AM
According to the media (who believes them anyway ), Uncle Donald only has a small window of opportunity to take action, as the NATO inspectors are in Syria to inspect the site next Friday, so he cannot do much once they are there. He must be a nightmare for the military Chiefs, he makes those statements that he's going in at any moment, and then of course he has to tone it down. The problem is if he keeps talking tough, and does nothing, his warnings become a joke. Just sit back folks and put the coffee machine on, it will all pan out in the end, all beyond our control, kt

cappy
13th April 2018, 09:27 AM
According to the media (who believes them anyway ), Uncle Donald only has a small window of opportunity to take action, as the NATO inspectors are in Syria to inspect the site next Friday, so he cannot do much once they are there. He must be a nightmare for the military Chiefs, he makes those statements that he's going in at any moment, and then of course he has to tone it down. The problem is if he keeps talking tough, and does nothing, his warnings become a joke. Just sit back folks and put the coffee machine on, it will all pan out in the end, all beyond our control, kt

##whooo can i take my tin hat of now keith ......trump is certainly in for a stormy time now....that hooker wont lie down ...oops wrong choice of words...lol cappy

Keith Tindell
13th April 2018, 09:32 AM
Yep thats right Cappy, just what we need at a time like this, a President under a huge amount of pressure from his private life, just as we are about to enter probably the most dangerous stage since Cuba.kt

Keith Tindell
13th April 2018, 09:47 AM
Just a thought, kt


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpiQdC9wSF8

j.sabourn
13th April 2018, 09:52 AM
#153... for a 70 plus year old man he should be basking in the glory of his past sexual exploits. Who knows maybe he has given her a few dollars to sue him and raise his sexual prowess. Maybe that’s how he gets his kicks. As said previous he doesn’t smoke or drink so must have some good/ bad habits to appear to be one of the boys. Go for it Donald your another one well past his 3 score and 10. JWS.

cappy
13th April 2018, 10:03 AM
#153... for a 70 plus year old man he should be basking in the glory of his past sexual exploits. Who knows maybe he has given her a few dollars to sue him and raise his sexual prowess. Maybe that’s how he gets his kicks. As said previous he doesn’t smoke or drink so must have some good/ bad habits to appear to be one of the boys. Go for it Donald your another one well past his 3 score and 10. JWS.

mind that stormy has the assets .....like a well played violin no doubt

j.sabourn
13th April 2018, 10:30 AM
What’s she complaining about anyway ? Not being paid enough at the time. ? What are her objectives ? Poor old Donald I believe has been married 3 times already so will be well aware of how the courts rule in favour of the female of the species in the U.S. Its a wonder by now that the oldest profession in the world don’t give you a receipt on completion of the job , stating that the client has fulfilled his or her objects. Every other trade seems to have some legal paper to sign and pass over. May be one of the next Bills to be signed by he US Congress. JWS.

Lewis McColl
13th April 2018, 01:26 PM
I reckon it is Ivana Trump is behind this, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, Plus she is from a former Communist Country.2624126242

The first one was a looker back in the day, but now you would rent her to haunt the neighbours. Current model is fit mind.

Des Taff Jenkins
14th April 2018, 12:54 AM
Hi John S.
I'm 86 next birthday, and was hoping to get to the 120 odd years like that old Jap bloke. I still balance on one leg to pull my socks on, still Peggy and vacuum, brain as sharp as a !!!!???? now what was I going to say. oh yes.
Cheers Des

j.sabourn
14th April 2018, 01:18 AM
I can’t even put my socks on Des so seldom wear, unless going out to some do all tarted up, that’s when having a wife comes in useful. Have the feeling that Donald Duck, sorry Donald Trump keeps his for other uses. Your 5 years ahead of me and only a youngster by your standards but still trying to be a youngster but slowly
Only realising tings ain’t what they used to be. You’ll make it don’t worry. Might be putting both socks on the one foot but what the heck. Cheers JWS.

Des Taff Jenkins
14th April 2018, 01:24 AM
Hi John S.
When I get up in the morning I sometimes hop around getting my socks on, my wife say's don't be a plonker sit on the bed and pull them on, but I say; she's only rolling a little I'll get the hang of it.
Cheers Des

happy daze john in oz
14th April 2018, 06:15 AM
Hi John S.
When I get up in the morning I sometimes hop around getting my socks on, my wife say's don't be a plonker sit on the bed and pull them on, but I say; she's only rolling a little I'll get the hang of it.
Cheers Des

Des, shoes and socks!!!!!!!!!!
Do not wear either, only put shoe son when going out.
But ity can have its problems, my feet have got more holes than you can poke a stick at, nails and stones do havoc to uncovered feet.

Keith Tindell
14th April 2018, 06:30 AM
Well , next move down to Putin, we plus the yanks and French, launched several attacks on Syria last night, tin hats on all round lads, kt

Lewis McColl
14th April 2018, 07:08 AM
I think I would be cancelling any holidays planned I had for Cyprus. I just hope the Russians will have a long hard think about how far they want to take this. Yet again NATO leave it to 3 member nations to do the dirty work. I hope the other 25 member nations chip in a few quid to at least pay for a coffee for the lads risking there lives.
https://youtu.be/-9t7LbNpQcE
https://youtu.be/YkgkThdzX-8
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Keith Tindell
14th April 2018, 07:11 AM
Just hope Trump winds his neck in on his twitter account now, he must be a nightmare for his military chiefs. As you say Lewis, not exactly a united EU response , kt

robpage
14th April 2018, 08:15 AM
shame the UN was less than useless ,

vic mcclymont
14th April 2018, 06:45 PM
Interesting that we have at one time criticised the D type destroyers, but one of them has been earmarked to protect the combined fleet in the Med.
Apparently the D class can track and shoot down a missile at 48 mile range.
Putin is a S.A. bully, if we let him away with his manners and consistent pushing of the boundaries he will try the patience of the west. Like all bullies they have at sometime have to be put back in their box.
Hopefully he will now sit back and contemplate and reflect on his actions.

Vic

robpage
14th April 2018, 06:55 PM
Unfortunately because we never pulled Assad in last time that I decided to chemically attack civilians I suspect he thought he could do it again with total impunity

Keith at Tregenna
14th April 2018, 07:18 PM
Re: Navy is now down to five ships.

I do wonder with modern warfare, will we actually need ships ?

Keith.

Lewis McColl
14th April 2018, 08:09 PM
Interesting that we have at one time criticised the D type destroyers, but one of them has been earmarked to protect the combined fleet in the Med.
Apparently the D class can track and shoot down a missile at 48 mile range.
Putin is a S.A. bully, if we let him away with his manners and consistent pushing of the boundaries he will try the patience of the west. Like all bullies they have at sometime have to be put back in their box.
Hopefully he will now sit back and contemplate and reflect on his actions.

Vic

From detection a Russian S300/400 travels at Mach 6 which is 1,992 meters per second or 4,456 miles per hour, so 48 miles you have 93 seconds before impact. I think the favoured defence would be Chaff or Phalanx.

vic mcclymont
14th April 2018, 08:15 PM
Lewis, the Russian missile system has only been proven on computer generated programs.
The old May day marches at best showed only missiles that the Russians hoped to achieve.
Their main aim was to provoke the west into spending more and more money?
Vic

robpage
14th April 2018, 08:18 PM
At least that Russian system is command radar guided and I think would have very little effect against the ships and I seem to understand from what the radio said that the RAF from Cyprus stayed into international air space before they released their missiles

Lewis McColl
14th April 2018, 08:22 PM
Perhaps , Vic but in 1957?was it when the Russian sent this we fella around the world it put the wind up the west.26250, also the earth station how do the relief crews travel to and from the station. I think the Russians should not be under estimated. I am sure our western partners will sleep easy in there beds knowing we have a destroyer on station watching there backs, um!!! just as long as it does not need to travel anywhere in a hurry.

robpage
14th April 2018, 08:24 PM
The daring class in the Mediterranean in winter will be fine the problem only occurs in the intercooler system when they are in hot summer Waters particularly in places like the Gulf and there anti aircraft systems are world leaders

vic mcclymont
14th April 2018, 08:29 PM
My understanding is that the D class and the Astute class is way ahead of other systems.
Vic

vic mcclymont
14th April 2018, 08:35 PM
Lewis, not underestimating Russian systems,in general their engineering systems are somewhat lacking.
Vic

Lewis McColl
14th April 2018, 08:35 PM
I do not know enough about these systems so lets hope if they are called into use they can protect our lads and our those on our team. One can only hope that common sense can prevail and the factions involved can sit down around a table and get an agreement to cease hostilities before this gets out of hand.
Please can somebody get that mobile phone of Trump and tell him tweeting is not the way to hold a diplomatic dialogue.

robpage
14th April 2018, 08:39 PM
Before the very first day class was built they constructed a complete radar superstructure on the top of the hill overlooking Portsmouth in what was the defence research establishment place which has spent an awful lot of time having aircraft helicopters and everything else flown over it I think that that was up for four or five years before the first daring class came into the Harbour solar system was well tried and tested .

Lewis McColl
14th April 2018, 08:40 PM
Lewis, not underestimating Russian systems,in general their engineering systems are somewhat lacking.
Vic

Vic not knocking our lads or gear, perhaps we get a lot of fake news about some problems that the RN are having with certain systems. Hopefully we will not be at the receiving end. Right time to take my leave early start tomorrow morning heading back to the UK for a week , looking forward to getting a decent pint of bitter. Cheers , behave now while I am away.

robpage
15th April 2018, 03:07 AM
I think that the equipment that is produced in the UK when the services are left alone to produce what they want but not leaving quite good unfortunately like everything to do with the Military political decisions due interfere

Jim Brady
15th April 2018, 08:30 AM
Right time to take my leave early start tomorrow morning heading back to the UK for a week , looking forward to getting a decent pint of bitter. Cheers , behave now while I am away.

Well Lew if it's a good pint of bitter you want I'l take you to just the place in Liverpool if we manage to meet up.I was out Friday drinking Tetley Smooth bitter @£1.70 a pint if that's to dear we can go up the road and drink John Smiths bitter @ £1.60 a pint where will you beat that.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Keith Tindell
15th April 2018, 08:33 AM
Bloody hell, twice that down here Jim, going out for a drink here, 3 pints =£12, at least. kt

j.sabourn
15th April 2018, 09:04 AM
Go to Cappys they’re free. He sends the Bill in later But just ignore. JWS.

cappy
15th April 2018, 09:42 AM
Go to Cappys they’re free. He sends the Bill in later But just ignore. JWS.

###thats right but wait till you come to sell your house and see whose name is on the deeds......lol cappy

robpage
15th April 2018, 12:02 PM
he is registered with HMRC tax department as a Sol Trader

Ivan Cloherty
15th April 2018, 04:36 PM
he is registered with HMRC tax department as a Sol Trader

Talking of HMRC there is a scam going around where-of yo get a message on your phone 'this is HMRC, we have an arrest warrant in your name, please press 1 for details' please ignore

robpage
15th April 2018, 07:32 PM
There is a similar one where they claim you have a rebate and give you a number to ring I'm not sure what the scam is but I think it's a premium rate number

happy daze john in oz
16th April 2018, 05:17 AM
With all the media available the fact is, that apart from the made up stuff the media produce and the 'truth' on Facebook, we will only be told the truth the powers that be want us to know.

Is the RN really down to just five ships, the Air Force to only ten aircraft?

The only ones who know the truth about this are the top brass in the forces.
Why let the enemy know what you have or do not have?

But I might add that if the figures are by any chance true then you may well be in deep doo,doo should a conflict emerge.

Keith at Tregenna
16th April 2018, 05:25 AM
How many ships etc are actually needed in a push button nuclear warfare age?

K.

robpage
16th April 2018, 06:04 AM
Our main deterrent is submarine launched , so 1 on patrol , 1 in dock , 1 going out , 1 coming in so 4 for the big red button

John Arton
16th April 2018, 09:47 AM
There was a program on BBC 2 last night, first of three, on our new aircraft carrier, very iñteresting. Showed the training undertaken even before they actually got on board. They had a flooding alert when a cooling pipe burst and water was showering down over the electrical power plant which has the same amount of electrical capacity as that a town the size of Aberdeen.
There were comparison made with the USA carriers on crew sizes, there are only 750 crew on board the Queen Elizabeth carrier as opposed to a couple of thousand on the U.S carriers, that figure does not include flight crews. Admittedly our carrier. Is designed to have 45? Planes on board as opposed to over 100? On the U.S. carriers. The first program ended with the vessel leaving the yard to start sea trials, which will be shown next week.
Most important stores item on board?
Toilet paper!!!
Rgds
J.A.

j.sabourn
16th April 2018, 10:02 AM
John when I proof read a partial book by W. McCoughlin in the 50s when I was only 17, think the book turned out to be called The Deep South. Was about the whale factory ships the Harvester and Venturer. If I remememner even then there were upwards of a 1000 on went with them down to South Georgia. W. McCloughlin had been the working mate on the Harvester if not both of them at various times. Although it sounds a lot of men, but these ships worked round the clock, butchers and flensers and wouldn’t be surprised candle stickmakers in the tens of dozens. Today merchant ships call in technicians as required. Naval ships carry all their own technicians , I used to wonder how the crews were so big, but there is good reason for it. I was always told there was a back up man for everyone on board, but think now it goes further than that. Cheers JWS.

Keith Tindell
16th April 2018, 10:37 AM
I remember BA training on HMS Bulwark in Portsmouth in the late 70s, we would do exercises 3 times per week, and smoke log different pats of the ship, it was so easy to get completely lost, and she was only a tiddler compared to the queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier. i would hate to have to deal with a large fire on there. It is proving to be a very interesting program, kt

robpage
16th April 2018, 01:23 PM
Somebody within Union Castle had a brainstorm in about 1971 and sent a few of us across to the old HMS Phoenix for fire brigade training with the Royal Navy they had an entirely different approach to what Hampshire fire brigade had at Warsash to the point of view where I think for the average Merchant Navy firefighter it could have been dangerous there seems to be a different attitude of what took a priority in your list of things to save man or ship

Bill Cameron
16th April 2018, 02:33 PM
Somebody within Union Castle had a brainstorm in about 1971 and sent a few of us across to the old HMS Phoenix for fire brigade training with the Royal Navy they had an entirely different approach to what Hampshire fire brigade had at Warsash to the point of view where I think for the average Merchant Navy firefighter it could have been dangerous there seems to be a different attitude of what took a priority in your list of things to save man or ship
I did my fire training at HMS Cochrane at Rosyth as a naval reservist, must admit it was very intense, and a wee bit scary the first time, but I thought it was very effective.

Ivan Cloherty
16th April 2018, 03:01 PM
There was a program on BBC 2 last night, first of three, on our new aircraft carrier, very iñteresting. Showed the training undertaken even before they actually got on board. They had a flooding alert when a cooling pipe burst and water was showering down over the electrical power plant which has the same amount of electrical capacity as that a town the size of Aberdeen.
J.A.

An interesting programme, which in some instances probably gave too much vulnerability away, although any future opposition may already be aware of these factors. The flooding in the engineroom was from a leaking pipe situated behind deckhead lagging and had been accumulating for some days until the weight of it made the lagging collapse, why had no one spotted this; had this happened at sea and the water was spraying from p-s-p-etc when the vessel rolled then the PVC covers thrown over the electrical components may well have proved useless, worked this time as the water was dropping vertically as the vessel lay dormant alongside a quay: hope they've sorted their leak detection system out

A quarter of the crew had never been to sea before including many 17/18 year olds and the Captain was asked about their safety and said words he may come to regret and have no say over when he said 'I would never put my young crew members in a situation that put them in danger, as I have a 17 year old son and would not put him in danger' Perhaps good PR for recruitment, you're in danger as soon as you step off that gangway be it RN or MN

I shall be watching again next week along with many Soviet agents/Russian Embassy as well no doubt! Whoops! Forgot to mention the Chinese, who held an exercise last week in the South China Sea, comprising 48 Naval vessels (warships and submarines) 76 fighter aircraft and over 10,000 personnel), sleep easy!

Hugh
16th April 2018, 05:14 PM
I remember BA training on HMS Bulwark in Portsmouth in the late 70s, we would do exercises 3 times per week, and smoke log different pats of the ship, it was so easy to get completely lost, and she was only a tiddler compared to the queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier. i would hate to have to deal with a large fire on there. It is proving to be a very interesting program, kt

I did my firefighting training at HMS PHOENIX - pretty realistic and scary. Every ship in the RN will do a firefighting exercise daily no matter what and that includes shore bases. It was always drummed into us that we couldn't call the fire brigade when we were at sea.
Regards
Hugh

vic mcclymont
17th April 2018, 09:18 AM
196 # In a sense the Captain is correct, persons under the age of 18 in the UK cannot be sent to the frontline, in any of our services.
Vic

Ivan Cloherty
17th April 2018, 09:35 AM
196 # In a sense the Captain is correct, persons under the age of 18 in the UK cannot be sent to the frontline, in any of our services.
Vic

Vic you don't have to on the front line to be in danger on a ship, as the C/E said the Engineroom with its 11,000 voltage system (yup that's correct 11K) was a very dangerous place to be when water is introduced, hence my remarks about danger when you step off the gangway, and think of the MN ships of old with all the forest of derricks and wires everywhere, danger is just not from conflict.

robpage
17th April 2018, 09:37 AM
The first time I saw an 11kv engine room was on looking around 82 tanker import which was built I think in 1943 it made out of 440 volt 60 cycle stuff look quite tame . I have work the 11kv ashore and it is not a voltage to play with a good friend of mine who worked on electricity boards ended up having to remove an electrician from a tiled floor with a paint scraper because of an 11kv accident

vic mcclymont
17th April 2018, 12:15 PM
I did two EMEB HV courses. We used to issue EMEB personnel with our permits to work, the show how we had isolated the LV. They would accept the permits after checking and then issue their own system and tag the switches with ID system. Very thorough.
Good course to go, scare the **** out of you , then build your confidence.
Vic

robpage
17th April 2018, 01:41 PM
working on a LV/380V switchboard one night the SE now SSE shut down the HV side of the transformers ,we were finishing off , new incoming breaker installed , HV back on , incoming LV breaker off ,I moved an incoming transformer cable and the SEB engineer knocked me out of the way , the transformer cables were unglanded and had exposed the copper rubbing on the switchboard frame , quick calculation he reckoned the open circuit fault current was 30 kA enough t blow the roof off and vapourise us , I learned a great 11kV respect that night

happy daze john in oz
18th April 2018, 06:29 AM
You say anyone under the age of 18 cannot be sent to fight at the front!

Was this the rules during WW when some as young as 14 signed up to the MN and ended up on ships with Dems Gunners on board.
Did such ships often involved in enemy action conform or not.

I am aware it was a different time then but it was still in many senses the front line.

vic mcclymont
18th April 2018, 12:28 PM
John, present day rules.
Vic

happy daze john in oz
19th April 2018, 06:13 AM
John, present day rules.
Vic

Thankfully brought up to date, thanks for that.

robpage
19th April 2018, 08:04 PM
But in these modern days you can be on the front line regardless of whatever your gender is there are some tough Girls out there

happy daze john in oz
20th April 2018, 06:29 AM
But in these modern days you can be on the front line regardless of whatever your gender is there are some tough Girls out there

Your girls must be tougher than ours, ours are allowed at the front but not to engage in actual combat.

Keith at Tregenna
20th April 2018, 07:03 AM
Our girls are all up front and like to engage.

26280

LOL.

K.

.