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View Full Version : Jealous, moi!!!!, too right I am



John Arton
25th September 2016, 08:47 AM
Not only do Kiwi's have a beautiful country to live in but they can also make you jealous of their lifestyle for some of them.
https://gcaptain.com/heres-what-life-is-like-aboard-107-meter-expedition-yacht-ulysses/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Gcaptain+%28gCaptain.com%29
certainly fancy a bit of that lifestyle.
rgds
JA

Ivan Cloherty
25th September 2016, 09:05 AM
No matter how much you pay for your luxury cruiser, you've still gotta hoist that black tin circle or basket weave ball

Peter F Chard
25th September 2016, 08:39 PM
Graeme Hart has always owned a boat and all have been named ULYSSES. His first was a 55 ft long wooden vessel built in Brisbane from memory. He had this vessel surveyed by a MOT surveyor ( me ! ) as a commercial vessel. His second boat was slightly bigger and again I was the surveyor. However, as they got longer and went over 24 metres in length the survey had to be done by a Classification Society surveyor so I was no longer required. Pity, they were such beautiful vessels. Regards Peter in NZ.

j.sabourn
26th September 2016, 01:49 AM
#3.. Peter my Niece and her husband bought an old Cray boat in Broome last year and done it up for private use for pleasure only. Not too sure of the size of the average Cray boat, and really haven't taken too much notice of in case I was asked to do something on her. They brought it down to Dongera where it has a mooring, and bring it down to Perth during the summer to fish off and do a bit of diving. How do pleasure craft of this size do as regards classification and survey. I know every inshore passage I made on commercial vessels had to report in to Canberra at fixed times to AMSA, do the likes of as mentioned have rules the same as a commercial vessel. I had a half cabined boat but only used it on inland waters and only had to have a boat skippers licence. No inspections as regards seaworthiness or any other certification. As regards the ex Cray boat have seen pictures of it and seems a big substantial vessel they even have a large spa bath on board seating about 10 I am told. A poor mans luxury yacht by the sounds of it. As far as I know they got nautical advice when being handed over, but never mention anything else as regards the working of the boat which they do themselves and apart from being aground a couple of times and a couple of engine problems, which he being a motor mechanic by trade was able to fix, he also has a fleet of lorries with the same SAAB engines so is familiar with. Cheers JWS

Des Taff Jenkins
26th September 2016, 03:45 AM
Hi John.
I lived in NZ twice once for 15 years then twelve years ago for five, I'm going to send a letter to John Keys the PM as I never had anything like that.
Cheers Des.

21357

Peter F Chard
26th September 2016, 04:13 AM
#3 John, In NZ a private non commercial vessel is just that, private property that can go anywhere, with anyone at any time. However once they are over 24 metres Overall Length then rules and regulations and registration become issues. When I was working full time I was registered as a ship surveyor with MNZ ( Maritime New Zealand ) They dictated what vessels I was allowed to survey. In the UK the regulatory authority was the Maritime and Coastguard Agency, in OZ it is AMSA, all with very similar regulations. In passing I have to say that I have met a number of AMSA surveyors and was always impressed with their professional approach to a very difficult occupation. Regards Peter in NZ.

j.sabourn
26th September 2016, 05:07 AM
AMSA do the larger certificate structure which used to be for the Deck, Master, Mate and 2nd mate. But for the likes of master 4 and 5, and I think 6, the only way I can equate with these certs is like the old master and mate Home trade, which I doubt very much are up to the standard of such, today. In fact when they first brought these numbered certs. out there was a period when there were no examinations for such, before everything appeared to once again get organized. I wouldnt be surprised to learn that this was under the EU guide lines so that all EU countries appeared to be on the same page. The lower of these certs. in Australia do not I believe come out via AMSA surveyors and are not federal but are issued through the different States maritime services. I haven't really seen one so don't know what they say, however have seen my own master 1 which have often said looks like its out of a corn flakes packet and compared to the old British cert. looks like the country of origin is insolvent. I think the AMSA regulations however regarding ships of whatever type must adhere to the reporting in system to Canberra otherwise the whole system would be useless. When referring to certs and cereal packets I am of course referring to the British version. The Australian version never changed much on my last up date. The crews on Australian crewed vessels where deck courses involved a lot of bridge work, such as Radar watches, basic navigation, and a few others, so would imagine they would have little problem in sitting for the equivilant 2nd Mates cert of today, and know of two who have done so since I retired. They did a 6 months course at the Tasmanian Nautical College all paid for by the Maritime Union. New Entrants to the sea going fraternity used to go on half wages for their first 6 months at sea and thereafter on full wages. For an IR (AB) was about 64000 dollars on the year I am talking about which meant 32000 dollars for a trainee. An IR was an integrated rating referred to in British ships as a GP General Purpose. When I refer to 6 months at a nautical college I am also referring to crews in general, in my time on the coast here as most term it, to get the IR cert. the MUA funded all seamen to go and get. This was about 20 years ago now. Sea time then was 6 weeks on and 6 weeks off....On offshore Agreements. PS Peter just talking to my Niece and she reckons her boat is 42 metres long with a 2 metre marlin board at the stern so is 44 metres long, so when tying up have to look for quay space of 44.1 metres ????? JWS

happy daze john in oz
26th September 2016, 05:45 AM
One of the quirkes here in Oz of boat ownership is that the requirements vary from state to state.

Here in Victoria it is fairly easy to get a licence, test is not that hard and boats of up to 15 meters have very little restrictions on them. But other states have different regulations making it very hard for some living close to a border.

Yesterday a guy went out in a 5 meter 'tinnie' not been seen since. Many forget the tides can change with a sudden wind change and many a fisherman has been caught out by it.

Captain Kong
26th September 2016, 07:55 AM
You should Never buy a yacht,
always make friends with people who have one.
Brian

Ivan Cloherty
26th September 2016, 08:38 AM
You should Never buy a yacht,
always make friends with people who have one.
Brian

Brian saw on the news this morning that Fleetwood people have the shortest lifespan in the UK, are you sure you want to move there?

j.sabourn
26th September 2016, 08:42 AM
Re #4 #7. 2 obvious mistakes I think she meant 42 feet and not metres and the engines are Volvo not SAAB. Will find out the correct length when see her husband. Cheers JWS

Captain Kong
26th September 2016, 10:10 AM
Brian saw on the news this morning that Fleetwood people have the shortest lifespan in the UK, are you sure you want to move there?

Hi Ivan,
I saw that on last nights news.
But what happens is, the European union closed down Fleetwood as a Fishing and sea port. Thousands of jobs depended on it, So there was no alternative work provided all those people just thrown on the Scrap Heap of life. Their will to live was taken away.
The big fit and healthy Trawlermen and Dockers are now sat in the alehouse all day smoking and supping ale, increasing their body mass index, getting diabetes, high blood pressure etc and no interest left in life. so they die early. That was the tragedy of a stinking Europe who doesn't give a damn.

When we go, we walk every day along the beach regardless of the weather, for a couple of hours, from the summers sun to snow in winter, Good clean fresh sea air, I don't smoke or drink now so should be OK. and not one moo, slam, in sight.
Cheers
Brian

Peter F Chard
26th September 2016, 11:02 PM
#12, There used to be an ICI plant at Burn Naze belching out a nasty cocktail of lethal chemicals which would not help any ones lifespan, is that plant still operating ? As for my own family my father was one of nine children, two had fairly short lives mainly due to industrial pollution and the war but the rest lived until their late 80's or 90's. Regards Peter in NZ.

Des Taff Jenkins
27th September 2016, 12:43 AM
Hi Brian.
No Mos will get you an extra ten years.
Cheers Des

happy daze john in oz
27th September 2016, 03:31 AM
Brian, if you move to Fleetwood how will you cope withjout your very good friend and neighbor 'hey you'? Is he still around as you speak little of him now.

Good neighbors are worth a lot, hope you get some in Fleetwood.

Captain Kong
27th September 2016, 10:23 AM
Hi Peter, The ICI Plant is closed
The closure of the ICI Hillhouse works cost the region a further 4,500 jobs. Industrial and commercial development has been at a standstill for fifteen years./ The Fishing Industry lost 9,000 jobs as well.
The area has been devastated by Europe.
The only big employer now is the "Fishermen's Friend" works.

Cheers
Brian

Louis the Amigo
27th September 2016, 06:43 PM
Hi shipmates, still have night mares, about pleasure boats too many close calls down poole harbour ,The solent and cowes? almost got our prime minster Ted heath on his morning cloud once? I was a rubbish helmsman ? still the same today.

Ivan Cloherty
27th September 2016, 07:18 PM
Hi shipmates, still have night mares, about pleasure boats too many close calls down poole harbour ,The solent and cowes? almost got our prime minster Ted heath on his morning cloud once? I was a rubbish helmsman ? still the same today.

Louis when I was doing my coastal spell taking coal to Cowes we used to rig high pressure hoses over the port and starboard side of the foc'le, that kept the yautties at a distance and their stupid shouts of 'don't you know steam gives way to sail old boy' that is of course when mere mortals couldn't afford one dem der fancy boats and all MN personell were drunks

Captain Kong
27th September 2016, 10:06 PM
First day of Cowes Week 31 July 1975 I was on watch bringing the ESSO Northumbria, 256,000 DWT, inward bound from the Gulf, 65 foot draft, we had Clear Channel, broadcast repeatedly on SPR , the Harbour Masters launch ahead of us, strobe lights flashing, loud hailer shouting ,` Get out of the Way`, I was on the whistle lanyard blasting away and not one yachty took any notice, they were crashing into us on both sides, masts falling over , people in the water screaming abuse. Yachts wrecked. I could not stop laughing all the way past Cowes and up the Thorn Channel to Fawley.
What a mess.
Kamikaze Yachties.
I had never laughed so much since the hogs ate my little sister.
Brian

Peter F Chard
28th September 2016, 02:46 AM
#16, The " Fishermen's Friend cough lozenge and liquid cough mixture was first made at the Lofthouse Chemist shop located at the corner of Lord and Preston Streets. I was born at number 75 Preston Street and knew most members of the Lofthouse family. Just about every fisherman in the town called at that shop and bought a bottle of their cough medicine before sailing for the fishing grounds, and I have seen their products for sale in every country I have ever visited !. Regards Peter in NZ.

happy daze john in oz
28th September 2016, 06:07 AM
#16, The " Fishermen's Friend cough lozenge and liquid cough mixture was first made at the Lofthouse Chemist shop located at the corner of Lord and Preston Streets. I was born at number 75 Preston Street and knew most members of the Lofthouse family. Just about every fisherman in the town called at that shop and bought a bottle of their cough medicine before sailing for the fishing grounds, and I have seen their products for sale in every country I have ever visited !. Regards Peter in NZ.


But Peter you must bevery careful which Fishermans Friend you suck on, get the wrong one and you could be in a lot of bother. LOL

cappy
28th September 2016, 07:47 AM
First day of Cowes Week 31 July 1975 I was on watch bringing the ESSO Northumbria, 256,000 DWT, inward bound from the Gulf, 65 foot draft, we had Clear Channel, broadcast repeatedly on SPR , the Harbour Masters launch ahead of us, strobe lights flashing, loud hailer shouting ,` Get out of the Way`, I was on the whistle lanyard blasting away and not one yachty took any notice, they were crashing into us on both sides, masts falling over , people in the water screaming abuse. Yachts wrecked. I could not stop laughing all the way past Cowes and up the Thorn Channel to Fawley.
What a mess.
Kamikaze Yachties.
I had never laughed so much since the hogs ate my little sister.
Brian###if i recall brian she was called big geordie .....sure was pride of the tyne on being built........cappy

Captain Kong
28th September 2016, 07:52 AM
They have a large Factory now on the left as you drive into Fleetwood, The Lofthouse family are very big Doners to various schemes in Fleetwood. They have a BIG Export trade world wide,
Their biggest customer is Japan. This year I was in Townsville, Queensland and wanted a packet, I found them in a store there.
I always have a stock of a dozen packets of various flavours at home here.
Brian

Captain Kong
28th September 2016, 08:03 AM
###if i recall brian she was called big geordie .....sure was pride of the tyne on being built........cappy

Hi Cappy,
she was Big Geordie, she was launched by Princess Anne in 1969. only lasted `10 years.
but she was a mess, very badly built, falling to pieces, the same as her sister ESSO Hibernia. always breaking down . the welds cracking.

We had three months in Cape Town because the rudder stock fractured ,
The Hibernia almost broke in half on her maiden voyage from the Tyne to the Gulf, only at sea for about four days., in ballast, she was towed stern first into Lisbon. and was almost rebuilt.
All the welds had welding rods stuffed in yhe gaps and then welded over the top.
They had two other sisters that were built in Belfast, same plans, the were very good ships, the ESSOs Caledonia and Ulidia, far superior quality building.
Two other VLCCs, ESSOs Demetia and Dalraida, were built at Kockums in Sweden, again far superior ships. Later the Demetia was hit by a missile in the Iran/Iraq war. and survived after repairs.
Brian

cappy
28th September 2016, 09:07 AM
the shocking state of the northumbria and other vessels built on the tyne in that era answers the question regarding shipbuilding in this country and why the italians germans and french now have control of what was one of our biggest industries.....the old tyne riveters would have died of shame ....this another reason for the demise of british industry ........bad practices and men with no pride in there work .......cappy

John Arton
29th September 2016, 01:15 PM
Cappy, Brian
The problems with the Esso Northumbria and the other super tankers built at Wallsend Slipway lie in its very name. Although the yard did have a large covered in dock where they could build ships in modular form, those tankers were just too large to be built in it so they were constructed piece by piece the old fashioned way using equipment that was out of date and in an era when industrial relations were at their worst. At high water the stern was under water almost so that gave only a short window of time when work could be carried out. The Government of the day had told the yards they had to embrace Far East building practises but there was no government investment in the yards to enable them to.
The only yard on the Tyne at that time that had the facilities that matched the Far East was Hawthorn Leslie. They had the largest dry dock on the Tyne, had invested in brand new fabrication shop where plates were cut using computer controlled under water cutting techniques, special heavy lifting trucks to shift 200 ton plus modules from inside the fabrication shop to the dry dock where they could be assembled. The dry dock could take ships up to around 100,000 ton size but only one bulker was ever built there.
The Harland and Wolf Esso tankers had the advantage of being built in the huge dry dock there where fabrication sheds were already in place.
The Swedish built ones were all built under cover and gradually pushed out from the covered fabrication shed as each section was added. The accommodation block was built separately and then lifted on fully completed at the fitting out quay.
There were only two yards in the U.K. that could build ships completely under cover in the 70's. A and P Appledore for small coasters only and the Deptford yard on the Wear where ships up to 25,ooo tons could be built and launched completely under cover.
Whether is was by government lack of investment or ignorance or by shipyard owners/managers not investing in up to date facilities and equipment the U.K. never had the proper facilities to build super tankers. Even the "Bridge" OBO's built at the supposedly purpose built yard at Haverton Hill on the Tees suffered similar problems in the welding as although the yard was purpose built for large ships it still lacked the most up to date welding gear such as computer controlled automatic welding machines etc. and specialist gear to align the sections. My next door neighbour in our first house worked on those Bridge boats and he told me that the only way they could actually make the welds was by filling the gaps with welding rods and then making the weld. The introduction of automatic welding gear was fiercely opposed by the Unions as they thought it would lead to the reduction in the number of welders required in the yard, no thought for the poor seamen who had to take them to sea. A pal of mine was on the maiden voyage of one of them and even on sea trials in the North Sea cracks were already appearing.
rgds
JA

Captain Kong
29th September 2016, 01:53 PM
On the `Northumbria` we were outward bound fortunately in ballast, for the Gulf via the Cape. we Anchored off Cape Town and loading stores off a barge when the Barge Captain called me on VHF on the bridge to report that the Rudder was swinging about. I informed the Captain and Chief Engineer, The Chief got in a Bosuns chair and was lowered down and swung onto the rudder, The Rudder Stock cracked, he could get his hand inside the cracks.
We were then towed into Cape Town and moored alongside the outer breakwater. We ballasted the No.1 and 2 tanks and brought her down by the head raising the after end completely out of the water.so the rudder was exposed. We then had a One Metre Bend amidships, she was known in Cape Town and the big Banana.
Globe Engineering was informed and they inspected it. It was totally useless.
They had the option of, sending a new rudder stock down from the Tyne as there was one there. but that would take a few weeks , it was 75 feet in length and three feet in Diameter. Then they realised that there were no cranes in the Southern Hemisphere that big to withdraw the old stock and insert the new one, So that idea was out.
Next option was to get some ocean going tugs to tow us all the way to the Tyne to have the job done there and that would take around Seven weeks just for the tow.
Next option was to weld the stock fractures which extended most of the way all up the Stock. Big Job, these fractures were very deep.
So that was decided upon.
Scaffolding was rigged all around the rudder and welding began,
then the welds cracked again. then more welding , still the welds cracked again this was taking a lot of time.
So the Top Welding Expert of EXXON, Harry Ebert, was sent for from New York. He flew down to Cape Town.
After surveying the job and inspecting the welds, he had them all dug out again. and then rigged rings of gas jets around the stock.
So welding began again and the gas jets lit and this kept the welds hot and then controlled cooling began over a long period of time.
This method was successful the welds held and so that method was used all the way up. It took three months to weld the Stock fractures.
Meanwhile the Ship Manager had arrived in Cape Town and told me to make myself known to Court Helicopters and up date the Ship/Helicopter Operations Manual, which I did, I was flying with them daily and also at night, Servicing ships round the Cape with stores, crew changes etc and Rescues when ships were wrecked on the Cape and transferring prisoners from Polsmoor Prison, the toughest prison in the world, to Robbin Island.
It was an exciting job for the Three Months. I wrote about it in Seafaring Stories thread in the Swinging the L.amp Forum.
So the three months in Cape Town was well appreciated by all hands instead of a boring run up to the Gulf and back.
Cheers
Brian

happy daze john in oz
30th September 2016, 06:44 AM
John #26, your comments about the Deptford yard brings back memories for me of my G.G.father. He was a riveter in that yard way back in the late 19th and early part of 20th century. His father had been a chain maker there, keeping it in the family.

John Arton
30th September 2016, 09:04 AM
Re: my #26 Regarding the Deptford Yard in Sunderland, before anyone jumps in to correct me, the actual covered in yard is the Pallion Yard and it is still there but only used as a training centre these days. Some years back there was an outfit that was wanting to reopen the yard in order to build new ferries for, I believe, Indonesia. It all came to nothings as since the closure of the yards on both sides of the river in the area, no dredging had been done and the depth of water available had drastically reduced. It was claimed that it would cost over one million quid to dredge the river to sufficient depths to allow ships to get under the bridges nearby and no one was prepared to cough up so the scheme came to naught.
rgds
JA