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j.sabourn
2nd August 2015, 04:04 AM
Anyone sail with Chowgules an Indian Company, believe the owner was originally from Goa, but resided in Switzerland. They had a fleet of ships under their National Flag and two under the Bahamas flag in 1970. Prior to this date all the mates and engineers on these Bahamas registered ships were recruited in the UK and were the usual 2 year Articles. During my 12 months on the Maratha Endeavour after the 2 years Articles were closed Indian mates and Engineers were employed in the stead of the British, leaving the only UK citizens as the master Mate and Chief Engineer. My second ship with them was the Maratha Envoy with the same set up but restricted to 12 months agreement. Was there 13 months but got itchy feet at the end of this time and went elsewhere. The youngsters nowadays who are in desperate straights to find employment I can see their point of view, as in the days mentioned there was still plenty of work around. However 10 years later there wasn't and was in exactly the same predicament as some of the youngsters today, so have also seen the good days and the bad days regarding employment, one has to cut the cloth to suit ones suit these days and work does not come to one like it used to. Most on here talk about the 50 60 and 70"s, that is a long gone bygone age today, and only exists in ones memory banks. They were good days although we still moaned about the same things, they are gone but not forgotten. The Bahama registered ships were managed by Fife ship management of London. Cheers JS

cappy
2nd August 2015, 08:54 AM
with no disrespect to young officers who have finished there apprenticeships.....is it not a matter of forethought to look at the time this will occur and see the chance of a position is quite small ......this is not new there have been very few jobs for these young officers for years .......i understand that ....to follow your star is a great ......but not always practicable......not trying to pour cold water .....as i have been in similar situations myself .....but then no one could tell me anything .....regards cappy

j.sabourn
2nd August 2015, 10:30 AM
That's very correct cappy. People of my era who stayed on to 65 or even later, apart from the well established with secure jobs, who were the fortuanate few, had to really scour the tabloids and get out there and seek their own employment. In 78 the writing was on the wall, the other reason why I went offshore. Even then there were very few deep sea men in this work, and in a lot of cases were looked on with suspicion. Some of those already in the Industry who were not from deep sea thought you were there to take their jobs from them. It took a lot of years for Foreign going mariners to fit in socially. Nowadays is a different story as most offshore have deep sea experience as they also saw the writing on the wall in the eighties. No job at sea is secure, I stayed with one offshore company for 8 years and when they went topsy turfy thought I would be ok as was in their pension scheme, some of the older ones to the company got, I didn't, their excuse being as I was entitled to a very small MN one I paid into, I wasn't entitled to their top up one. I employed accountants and solicitors to gain what I had signed up for, to no avail, they just kept changing the Insurance company, after 2 years I gave up the ghost. Hence my disdain for some British owners. Australia was much kinder to seafarers on retirement, and believe it or not it was down to the Australian Maritime Unions. No seaman out here whether AB, Greaser, Cook, mate or engineer, leaves the industry after a certain period without a substantial pay out. My real advice to any youngster would be to establish yourself not necessary with a British company, but go abroad, a seamans life is abroad most of the time in any case. Don't fall for the glossy adverts telling you, you can go ashore and be a harbour master either, those jobs also are few and far between in the UK. Any shore job for a mariner is hard to get unless you change your trade. This should be under the gripes heading so will get another bollicking. Cheers John S

cappy
2nd August 2015, 10:41 AM
Think that covers it all in a nutshell john.....we had the time of plenty in the 50s and 60s but the pond got small and has dried up.....if you got a dr in them times a good chance of going straight back as they were short of crew after the great losses of the war.....they were the fun times ....long gone.....ps charlie flown off to play against south africa and the froggie french today .......he goes to capetown ist....58 years since i was there were has it all gone......him all expenses paid ....me was burning my balls of in a coal burning galley.for 11 quid a month ...but the time of my life .......its a wonderful world regards cappy

Captain Kong
2nd August 2015, 12:22 PM
I was offered a good job as Berthing Master at the SBMs on the island of Pulau Awai Chiawan near Singapore in the early 80s, a long term contract.
With a bungalow , a house keeper, a gardener, and good money. could have been a little paradise.
The wife refused to go and unfortunately I turned it down.
A year later she ran off with a fella I knew and took my money and all my furniture,
SO You Must Seize Your Opportunity As soon as you can and go for it.

Brian.

j.sabourn
2nd August 2015, 12:31 PM
Did you get to inspect the Housekeeper Brian. Remember one in Hong Kong a swiss musician he was away on tour, don't really think she was telling the truth though as she had her own Amah. Always reminded me of the movie Suzie Wong. Especially on the morning ferry coming back to Kowloon. Ref. Brians ref. to SBM is a Single Buoy Mooring. And is what a tanker ties up to for loading as the buoy has all the pipe lines as well as the mooring facilities which are passed to the Tanker. A lot of cases when assisting to tie up some of these large vessels have to use a line throwing apparatus to pass a line to a tanker and thus pass the mooring line, all depending on weather. During really bad weather have seen us swinging on the end of the mooring line not for our benefit, but to try and keep all the lines from the buoys getting snarled up, and so prevent a bigger job when the weather moderates. One time doing that Brian left the lines snarled up and finished up swinging on the end of a mooring line to keep it clear. Seas were coming over the bridge wings and carried away all the lifebuoys which finished up in Norway, they were calling the ship for 24 hours to see if we were still afloat. It was you wasn't it Brian, cappy said it was. Cheers John S PS Brian everyone is going to be watching your house now to seize the opportunity to swipe your furniture. Do you have any expensive antiques. Cheers when you coming out this way again. JS

cappy
2nd August 2015, 12:52 PM
did you get to inspect the housekeeper brian. Remember one in hong kong a swiss musician who was away on tour, don't really think she was telling the truth though as she had her own amah. Always reminded me of the movie suzie wong. Especially on the morning ferry coming back to kowloon. Cheers john s#hello hello ...another hot dog then lol cappy

Captain Kong
2nd August 2015, 01:14 PM
Not sure when John
Depends on the finances. could be next year but depends on where the cruise ship dumps us.
Cheers
Brian

John Arton
3rd August 2015, 08:45 AM
There was a newly qualified O.O.W. on here saying that he was having difficulty finding employment yet only last week there was an article in the Maritime Press stating that there is a world wide shortage of some 45000 qualified officers. There are any number of Management outfits in the U.K. that I occasionally review and there seems as if most of them have openings for junior officers, its just a matter of trawling the internet to get their address and putting up your c.v. on maritime employment sites.
rgds
JA

Ivan Cloherty
3rd August 2015, 08:59 AM
Alas John, some people expect their life to be handed to them on a plate, but we know that perseverance was/is the name of the game, no matter wht field you are in.

Captain Kong
3rd August 2015, 10:13 AM
Some come on here and ask The Question and then never return. Time wasters some of them.
Brian

cappy
3rd August 2015, 10:26 AM
Some come on here and ask The Question and then never return. Time wasters some of them.
Brian###we used to go there dip our wick then never return ......cappy

j.sabourn
3rd August 2015, 11:49 AM
That's why Soogi bucket in Kobe called you a Butterfly Cappy. Is the grandson back yet... Cheers JS

cappy
3rd August 2015, 12:49 PM
soogi bucket and gash bucket were two crackers......both sent regards to a 3rd mate from n shields .....him float like a butter fly .....stink like a whiskey bottle.....no john charlie is back on the 17th pats birthday ....dont ask how many i dernt ask myself.....but we will have a good family party to celebrate the dual occasion........regards cappy

j.sabourn
4th August 2015, 04:39 AM
Ref. to posts taking jobs through crew manning agencies. I did once and was a bummer. If there is a shortage of seamen why do not the companies advertise direct and if the people are there they will reply. These crew management agencies that shipowners go to I always question their honesty and integrity. They are just another part of associate industries connected to seafarers and are there firstly to make money for themselves. Any shipowner who uses such to man his ships and then turns round and pleads poverty is speaking with a forked tongue. In my day the manning agency would charge the equivilant of your months wage for supplying yourself. Multiply that by a few hundred every month and is a very lucrative money maker for sitting behind a desk. The shipowner on his part will try and get this money back the only way he can and that again is through the wage he pays his employees, a very vicious circle where as usual the only losers are the seamen themselves. The shipowner employs Superintendants and crew managers to do this, for them not to do their job and take the easy way out is incorrect. For a seaman to go to an Agency should be the last resort. For his own good and the benefit of the Industry. Unfortuanetly the Hong Kong system which has worked through such agencies for years, was and is still probably very trying to Chinese seafarers who had to pay this months wages themselves. Whereas as with European crews is probably hidden in the paperwork as suggested, by paying lower wages than could have been ,without having to use such establishments. The glossy adverts as mentioned earlier through such agencies, I would suggest to any newcomer to take with a pinch of salt. Cheers JS

John Arton
4th August 2015, 09:34 AM
JS
Crew and ship management agencies here in the U.K. are very strictly regulated and have to abide by a number of international regulations. There are very few ship owners left (if any) who directly employ their own company men. Most of the major ship management agencies are offshoots of major ship owners who have put the technical, marine and personnel management into a separate, often wholly owned, division. A number of the biggest ones are located in Glasgow along with some smaller ones and they use a lot of Brits in there technical, marine and personnel management positions along with employing fairly large numbers of British seafarers.
Rgds
JA

j.sabourn
4th August 2015, 09:50 AM
The big one in Glasgow, who 50 years ago weren't so big or so well established, I went to in 1985, 30 years ago, they offered a job straight away, and a week later got around to rescinding the same, must have got around to looking at CV. Said I had spent a lot of time in North Sea on different trade routes than a dry cargo vessel, what they knew about trade routes I could have written on my thumb nail and I bite them. Went out and got my own job, who needs them. I am not talking about Management Companies but pure human beings being supplied to the owners from all over the world. My advice would still be regulations or no regulations for any one seeking work, go out and approach the owners or their representatives yourself,. Cheers JS

j.sabourn
5th August 2015, 06:08 AM
As a lot of youngsters come on here looking for advice, and as most of us know a lot will finish up in offshore work, to get some ideas of this type of trade they can just google Seaforth Jarl, which was just one of many I was on of the same fleet. Believe she was built in Scotland about 1975 and survived until 1983 when she was lost off Newfoundland due to a bad distribution of cargo causing her to put certain air pipes under the water and aggravating the situation. Fortuanetly believe all the crew had time to get off. During my leaves off my permanent ship the Seaforth Clansman I did various relieving jobs for short spells to enable the crew rosters to stay continuous so knew this vessel fairly well. I rather think she was involved with the rescue operations of a rig off Newfoundland about 79 or 80.the master came home to Aberdeen and made his acquaintance, unfortuanetly he is believed to have taken his own life as his body was recovered from the harbour after a night ashore in the Beach area, so must have walked into the sea. Reading the different bits on the Jarl on Google however one station says as regards any known crew no information, I find this hard to believe as I know quite a few. However working in Canada she had a Canadian crew. There are quite a few discrepencies on information that I am personally aware of as regards Google and such like, but rather than cause a furore keep silent. However it would be well worth ones while for youngsters going to sea for the first time to get all the info. they can, and in this day and age is via this media. Also to realize it is not all plain sailing, Senoritas and bad heads in the morning among other things. However if you play your cards right you may still be fortuanate to manage. Cheers JS