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John Albert Evans
4th February 2015, 09:09 AM
I read in this mornings paper that the First Minister of Scotland is abolishing early early automatice release of prisoners in Scotland, I say well done and not before time.

It is about time the the UK as a whole got rid of the crazy present system that has evolved of jailing people for say 5 years which in reality means serving only 2 .1/2 years.

I dont know whose idea is was originally but that person needs locking up.

John Albert Evans

Jim Brady
4th February 2015, 09:20 AM
John the idea is to keep them under control when they are inside.If they miss-behave they will do the full sentence.Imagine what it would be like for the prison officers if there wasn't an early release,the early release is a carrot for prisoners to behave.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Louis the Amigo
4th February 2015, 09:36 AM
Hi Shipmates, Hi john, Do you know how much it cost to keep someone in prison? I knew someone who made Illegal drugs, before he was caught he lived like a lord, house car the works {he was on the dole} skint ? he had 8 years from the judge for his crime ? he was out in 3 yrs 6 months ? His stuff was home made, he used any thing to make them? no skill of any kind out of a book, today where is he ? I saw him a few weeks ago, in a top of the range volvo driving around the city, who said Crime does Not pay? he wont get caught this time.

John Albert Evans
4th February 2015, 09:37 AM
Sorry Jim I hear what you say but I disagree.

John

Jim Brady
4th February 2015, 09:51 AM
John it is not a foregone conclusion that you are only going todo half of your time .Ten Years means ten years if you don't behave,beating up other prisoners and prison officers etc you will do the full ten.Even when they get out that half of the sentence is still hanging over them,they are out on parole or licence step out of line and they are back in to finish the other half of their sentence,this is supposed to be rehabilitation.
Regards.
Jim.B.

cappy
4th February 2015, 09:53 AM
prisomn should be a place to fear .....nobody gets rehabilitation .......the do gooders have made it to easy .....the only rehabilitation should be .....not wanting another dose of that i believe by what i see that the food is as good if not better than what we got at sea in the 50s and 60s ...they wear there own clothes ...they have association.....pool ...keep fit ..........have telephone usage ......central heating .......prison should be and used to be ashock to the system.......you dont want to go back ever ....but it is not so ........HMP adelaide 1959 .........not for a crime ...but for the love of an ausie girl....illegal imigrant .......nobody would want to go back unless they were mentally challenged......food uneatable .....minute amounts ....cell about 6x4......like a sauna day and night ....one shower a week ......no talking .....a bucket to piss and crap in.....a hammock of hard canvas one pillow one blanket.....a pair of keks 50 inch waist on a waist of 34.......a shirt of 60 inch on a chest of a young man with 40 inch chest .......one night asong of tht era was started to sing by all in the block doors opened screws brayed 7 bells out of the singers.........you would not want to go back there....ps the song was tom dooley.....regards from cappy who would not make a mistake like that again ....LESSON LEARNED........

Jim Brady
4th February 2015, 10:14 AM
Yeh some poor woman who can't afford a TV licence and is banged up for not having one deserves all that.
Regards.
jim.B.

gray_marian
4th February 2015, 10:17 AM
#1 John, I wouldn't lock them up I'd remove their pension rights, were it hurts most.

#2,Jim, It has surpassed 'keeping them under control' This particular announcement was a long time coming, as was first stated in the SNP 2007 manifesto that it would bring this amendment into force if elected!. Eight years later and finally... after further serious crimes being repeated... murder, rape etc from early release prisoners some within weeks of leaving prison.....what an insult to the families of the victims....Like the majority of politicians....don't hold your breath:mad:

john sutton
4th February 2015, 10:35 AM
Its easy to see how good prison life is.Only a small percent of them escape when it seems such an easy thing to do

cappy
4th February 2015, 10:59 AM
Yeh some poor woman who can't afford a TV licence and is banged up for not having one deserves all that.
Regards.
jim.B.#####you havnt been going round banging up old ladies......cos they didnt have a license jim .......it sounds fun.....cappy

Jim Brady
4th February 2015, 11:15 AM
Marian#8 it will be good to see the results after a couple of years,I'm sure this half tariff was brought in to reduce the chaos in our prisons.I think criminality is part of a persons make up,when they are released no hope of getting a job so it's back to crime within a week of release.When they go out on a job the last thing that they think about is getting caught.Here in Liverpool in recent times many heavy duty crooks,crime families including the mother and father etc have been caught and been given long term sentences and the Criminal Assets Bureau stripping them of their assets which they have obtained through crime.
Regards.
Jim.B.

John Pruden
4th February 2015, 11:53 AM
a lot of the prison population is made up of immigrants most should not even be here in the first place on sentencing deportation proceedings should start immediately on incarceration instead of after the sentence that way soon as the gate opens they are out of the country another way is to give sentence but carried out in country of origin the difference of time here to say an African or communist prison would be well more of a deterrent than what we have got and save millions to the tax payers? just my view jp

Captain Kong
4th February 2015, 01:06 PM
This one way of cutting out violence in Prison, Do the Filipinos have the right answer?? It works there.
. see video Sound on and full screen,.
EXCELLENT SHOW.
Brian

I Need a Hero - YouTube (http://youtu.be/fDdPuCsOLaQ)

Louis the Amigo
4th February 2015, 01:15 PM
hi shipmates, There was a post on here about our time at sea, a vicar of Liverpool saying how hard it was for us all, he said Quote it was easier to go to prison than go to sea for the familys.

cappy
4th February 2015, 01:56 PM
hi shipmates, There was a post on here about our time at sea, a vicar of Liverpool saying how hard it was for us all, he said Quote it was easier to go to prison than go to sea for the familys.###its not true .....cappy

Louis the Amigo
4th February 2015, 06:46 PM
Hi Shipmates, hi Cappy how would a vicar know? he was not at sea. it is on a post here.

Lou Barron
5th February 2015, 12:22 AM
Wished they had done that in Changi Prison

Louis the Amigo
5th February 2015, 04:41 PM
hi shipmates, Hi Lou, what would a vicar know about P.O.W. death camp prison? he was on about your local nick easy time, with proper food and t.v with all the mod cons, Not hell on earth, my next door neighbour "Donny Owens" army r.i.p was in one, when they dropped the bomb, on Japan he was a slave of the japanese in a deep mine ,so did not get killed? he lived till almost 90 yrs , I still miss him today he had a great out-look on life. except for anything Japanese they killed many of his friends by working them to death ,with no food and beatings Not a nice way to be killed. he said they were Animals.

Keith at Tregenna
5th February 2015, 10:01 PM
Expect Gary Glitter will find out much about cockney rhyming slang now he is banged up ?

Braid Anderson
5th February 2015, 10:59 PM
From my book 'Gross Britain'

The fight against crime in Britain had become a war of national survival, which was why the armed forces were now involved. NASTY was the spearhead, but other units could be called out in support. Unfortunately, NASTY already contained most of the nation's fighting troops. The armed forces had dwindled steadily, owing to the other demands of society - such as television, video and university courses for the increasing number of criminals in the jails. Jails which had become more and more like Government rest houses, but at greater cost. Backed by parole boards that would send Satan himself back to Heaven with a Good Behaviour badge.

Gross Britain by Braid Anderson | 9781781761960 (http://feedaread.com/books/Gross-Britain-9781781761960.aspx)

Keith at Tregenna
5th February 2015, 11:28 PM
'Gross Britain'

Will go and find my copy:

Please be advised not to look up cockney rhyming slang: GARRY GLITTER

happy daze john in oz
6th February 2015, 05:11 AM
Last state gov here in Victoria brought in some tough new rules, minimum sentences with no remission , ten years for a one punch kill. Now we have a labor gov, oh those poor souls can be rehabilitated, give then home detention. Where are they coming from?

John Arton
6th February 2015, 02:02 PM
THEY LIVE AMONGST US
On social media recently there is a post from two young girls who are in the T.A. near where I live. On coming out of there HQ a passing car ful of "you know whats" shouted abuse at them and threatening them with beheading or stoning.
What have al the politicians and do-gooders done to our country that allows such abuse to take place?
rgds
JA

Captain Kong
6th February 2015, 02:16 PM
It is a disgrace that Politicians have allowed the influx of an alian culture, against the wishes of the people,
to poison our society. They have allowed it but will not stop it or reverse it.
Service men and women were always proud to wear their uniforms when home on leave, Now impossible, they will get attacked and abused like Lee Rigby in London, who wasnt even wearing a uniform.
These animals walk all our streets and are even allowed to vote their own kind into Parliamnent, I know I have one as an MP disguised a a Labour Party Member...
Cheers
Brian

vic mcclymont
6th February 2015, 04:26 PM
Jim, as far as I am aware if you have no TV licence and get caught it is purely a fine. Don't pay the fine possibility of a prison sentence.
Vic

Jim Brady
6th February 2015, 04:34 PM
Vic if the fine isn't paid committed to prison,quite a few women locked up for this offence.
Regards.
Jim.B.

cappy
6th February 2015, 04:51 PM
serves them right the law is the law ......i think there would be more to it than one offence ......and she spent the money on other things.....

Jim Brady
6th February 2015, 05:02 PM
I just could not pass any comment on that last post.Cappy I think you were born in the wrong century.
Regards.
jim.B.

cappy
6th February 2015, 05:11 PM
well jim long in the tooth yes but charity starts at home when will people learn if you cant pay you cant have thats how people get introuble......they think the world owes them a living......how many others licences apart from your own have you paid for recently .......now tell the truth and shame the devil.....as granny used to say.....regards cappy

Captain Kong
6th February 2015, 05:24 PM
There was a time when I didnt have a TV, I was at sea doing five month voyages. and lived alone for 12 years so I had no need for a TV. I could always watch a TV in the alehouse for free.
My ex wife took it with her when she legged it with her new fella.
`
The `Licences People` would harrass me continuously, You Have a TV. NO I DO NOT, Oh yes you have, OH NO I DO NOT.

We will search your house and find one, OH NO YOU WONT. I DO NOT HAVE A TV , I DO NOT WANT A TV AND I WILL NOT PAY FOR STUPID LICENCES. Oh yes you will we have means of making you pay.
We will get a search Warrant and with the Police we will search your house and take you Court.
They hammered on my door. A jobsworth and Two Policemen with a Court Order to search my house. It was a diabolical infringement of my privacy.
No TV.
so WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH IT, WHERE ARE YOU HIDING IT???
I was getting angry , I had to hold myself back in case they arrested me for beating up two policemen and a Jobsworth.
.
I signed a paper confirming I had no TV. BUT WE WILL BE MONITORING YOU said Jobsworth.

Now I am Happy , I have a TV and as I am 80 in a few weeks have had no licence for near 5 years.
Cheers
Brian

cappy
6th February 2015, 05:32 PM
I just could not pass any comment on that last post.Cappy I think you were born in the wrong century.
Regards.
jim.B.brady man he speak forked tongue say no make comment then make comment.....left hand not knowing what right hand do tonto.....cappy

Jim Brady
6th February 2015, 05:34 PM
Cameron boasting about him clamping down on tax dodgers,he wants all British firms to be "Headquartered" in the UK.In the mean time his wife is being paid £100.000 p.a. by stationery firm Smythson who are based in Luxembourg.His wifes mother Lady Astor and step dad Viscount Astor both involved in companies based off shore with anonymous owners,they are using tax havens to dodge the tax,Dave wants to clamp down on tax dodgers and it's going on right under his nose.Millions are being fiddled in tax evasion by people who mix with the elite and nothing is done,these are the people who should be in gaol not some poor little old woman who hasn't got a TV licence for a £140 quid or whatever it is.
Regards.
jim.B.

cappy
6th February 2015, 05:45 PM
Cameron boasting about him clamping down on tax dodgers,he wants all British firms to be "Headquartered" in the UK.In the mean time his wife is being paid £100.000 p.a. by stationery firm Smythson who are based in Luxembourg.His wifes mother Lady Astor and step dad Viscount Astor both involved in companies based off shore with anonymous owners,they are using tax havens to dodge the tax,Dave wants to clamp down on tax dodgers and it's going on right under his nose.Millions are being fiddled in tax evasion by people who mix with the elite and nothing is done,these are the people who should be in gaol not some poor little old woman who hasn't got a TV licence for a £140 quid or whatever it is.
Regards.
jim.B.go easy jim you nearly fell off you soapbox then ......cappy

Jim Brady
6th February 2015, 05:53 PM
Cappy I thought that I would post about people who you admire and look up to,they could fiddle millions but as long as they are Blue it's fair game,maybe one day you will remove the blinkers.
Regards.
Jim.B.

gray_marian
6th February 2015, 06:00 PM
#32, Jim Lady Astor's Homestore Company "Oka" has 11 stores in the UK. Would be interesting to know how many staff she employs throughout. Were your previous facts #32 obtained from "Companies House"?

vic mcclymont
6th February 2015, 06:24 PM
What about the arch socialist the Prince of Darkness, Mandleson, he was caught out doing a tax dodge this week with his company?

cappy
6th February 2015, 06:54 PM
#32, Jim Lady Astor's Homestore Company "Oka" has 11 stores in the UK. Would be interesting to know how many staff she employs throughout. Were your previous facts #32 obtained from "Companies House"?###no marion just the same old labour dogma from the 50s and 60s ......the wonderfull bliar of cours making more a day than all of them put together .....and his mrs not far behind......cappy

vic mcclymont
6th February 2015, 07:00 PM
Cappy, your good friend Tony Bliar's company had a turnover of £14m, paid £300k in tax and claimed it spent £13m on expenses.
Fiddle?????????
vic

Jim Brady
6th February 2015, 07:09 PM
No Marian I haven't been it touch with Companies House.Apparantley the company Oka is ownwed by 50% of anonymous shareholders through accounts held in Guernsey.She has a 22% stake in the firm which she founded in 1999 which she has benefited from the offshore investment.Her husband is linked to a firm in a Caribbean tax haven which owned his family's 19.000 acre Talbert Estate in Scotland.Some figure here Marian but from 2012.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/oka-founder-viscountess-astor-launches-202610605.html

Regards.
jim.B.

vic mcclymont
6th February 2015, 07:16 PM
You would think with all the press news about tax dodging that the political parties would be whiter than white, apparently not so.
Labour income £33m tax paid £14k
Conservative income £25.4m tax paid £187k.
Liberals income £7.3m tax paid £14.00, no not a typo, fourteen pound is all that they paid to the revenue.
Vic

Captain Kong
6th February 2015, 07:19 PM
Here is a fau pax by Miliband, a man who has never worked outside of politics, a Toff himself, from a very wealthy family . He critisized the man who owns BOOTS as a Tax dodger,
The man who owns Boots is an Italian Pharmaceutical Manufacturer Stefano Pessina, and his family Business is in Milan.
So why , after employing 70,000 people in Britain who all pay tax would he want to pay tax here. He pays his Tax in Italy.

I would hate to see him as a Prime Minister, He is NO Statesman. he could not negotiate on the world stage.
I have voted Labour many times in the past but cannot do so now.
Cheers
Brian

cappy
6th February 2015, 07:30 PM
Cappy, your good friend Tony Bliar's company had a turnover of £14m, paid £300k in tax and claimed it spent £13m on expenses.
Fiddle?????????
victhats more than they left in the country ...when they were kicked out lasttime ......god forbid balls gets in cappy

Jim Brady
6th February 2015, 07:33 PM
Brian the guy in question no matter what his nationality is earning millions of pounds in this country so therefore should pay tax on same.How many people he employs who pay tax is irrelevelent he should be like them and pay his share.He doesn't refuse the NHS prescription business I notice.
Regards.
Jim.B.

gray_marian
6th February 2015, 07:40 PM
#39, I stand corrected only 22%. Sounds like a great firm to work for Jim. Ancestry.com should supply the rest of her extended family.

Jim Brady
6th February 2015, 07:48 PM
A lot more on Wikipedia Marian if you are interested.
Regards.
jim.B.

vic mcclymont
6th February 2015, 07:55 PM
Some of the biggest critics of tax avoidance are the trade unions, therefore you would think that they would be contributing tax, but not so.
11 of the UK's largest Unions had stocks and share portfolios valued at over £190m and they paid zilch income tax on dividend payments received.
Len Murray's Unite Union has a portfolio of stocks and shares valued at £51.7m and received £5.7m in dividends and paid no tax, time for the T.U.' and the political parties to how an example.
Vic

John Pruden
6th February 2015, 07:59 PM
the very same boffins that make the tax laws{advisers} they call themselves to the governments leave little pinholes in the rules then advise yehh the big conglomerates how to avoid paying tax to this country so they get paid twice simple but clever its been going on for years ohh and most get knighthoods as well? couldn't make it up? jp

Jim Brady
6th February 2015, 07:59 PM
Cappy £14 million, more than the last lot left in the country,thats peanuts.You aint seen nothing yet wait until the end of May when Dave and soft lad George are up the road the deficit will take years to clear.The deficit left by Labour George said he would clear it in his first term so it could'nt' of been that bad instead he has borrowed more than labour intended borrowing despite all the drastic measures and the misery he has caused many.
Regards.
Jim.B.

john sutton
6th February 2015, 08:21 PM
Cappy £14 million, more than the last lot left in the country,thats peanuts.You aint seen nothing yet wait until the end of May when Dave and soft lad George are up the road the deficit will take years to clear.The deficit left by Labour George said he would clear it in his first term so it could'nt' of been that bad instead he has borrowed more than labour intended borrowing despite all the drastic measures and the misery he has caused many.
Regards.
Jim.B.jim
do we really need this political ranting on the site.Reading your posts the conservatives cannot and never have done anything right and the labour party cannot and never have done anything wrong.
Surely you must know that they all eat from the same trough and the only difference is that everyone knows that Cameron and Osborne went to a public school but labour politicians don't like owning up to their public school education.
We all take the pixs out of Prescott but at least he once had a proper job.most of his fellows didnt

Jim Brady
6th February 2015, 08:30 PM
Some of the biggest critics of tax avoidance are the trade unions, therefore you would think that they would be contributing tax, but not so.
11 of the UK's largest Unions had stocks and share portfolios valued at over £190m and they paid zilch income tax on dividend payments received.
Len Murray's Unite Union has a portfolio of stocks and shares valued at £51.7m and received £5.7m in dividends and paid no tax, time for the T.U.' and the political parties to how an example.

Vic

Vic they do pay tax but they don't have to pay Corporation Tax.your mate George told them that they do not have to pay corporation tax because of the suite of benefits that they offer,including sickness and accident benefit,so relieving the state of the burden of providing those in need with financial support.So Vic if George said it's ok then they are not breaking the law,you will have to stop reading that rag the Daily Mail Vic.
Regards.
jim.B.

John Pruden
6th February 2015, 08:39 PM
do we really know what is coming in the next term of parliament with the world the way it is at this time whoever gets in may have to shell out billions on middle east famine anything and if we do exit Europe times will be tough until we get back on our feet then the lot after next can blame the coming government we don't know we could be not so much dragged into another conflict in the middle east and only in my estimation we should go in for peace sake or we may reap what they sow? just my view jp

vic mcclymont
6th February 2015, 08:45 PM
Jim,
Not the Daily Mail, Telegraph had a full page article on the union activities.
Never heard of a Union paying sickness and accident benefits.
Vic

Jim Brady
6th February 2015, 08:52 PM
jim
do we really need this political ranting on the site.Reading your posts the conservatives cannot and never have done anything right and the labour party cannot and never have done anything wrong.
Surely you must know that they all eat from the same trough and the only difference is that everyone knows that Cameron and Osborne went to a public school but labour politicians don't like owning up to their public school education.
We all take the pixs out of Prescott but at least he once had a proper job.most of his fellows didnt
John how come you have singled me out is it ok for the Tories to rant.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Jim Brady
6th February 2015, 09:00 PM
Jim,
Not the Daily Mail, Telegraph had a full page article on the union activities.
Never heard of a Union paying sickness and accident benefits.
Vic
Vic,what I quoted is in the article to which you refer.
Regards.
Jim.B.

cappy
6th February 2015, 09:05 PM
Vic they do pay tax but they don't have to pay Corporation Tax.your mate George told them that they do not have to pay corporation tax because of the suite of benefits that they offer,including sickness and accident benefit,so relieving the state of the burden of providing those in need with financial support.So Vic if George said it's ok then they are not breaking the law,you will have to stop reading that rag the Daily Mail Vic.
Regards.
jim.B.####benefits from the union jim ........never met anyone who got any benefits of the union jim except the unionmen on the big pensions .....they should have no more than the average pay of theremembers......but people are now realising and there membership is going down like the nnew labour

vic mcclymont
6th February 2015, 09:12 PM
Jim, had a look on Unites Web page, no mention of sickness benefits or accident benefits.
Read the article in full, the get the tax reduction because of the claim that they pay benefits.
If Unions get the tax benefits, what about companies that pay wages when employees are off sick?
Regards
Vic

Rodney Mills
6th February 2015, 09:39 PM
There is a vast difference between minimizing—legally—your tax burden, and not paying what you legally owe. One is obeying the tax code and the other is criminal.

I'm picking as an example of tax "loopholes," this former legal tax maneuver (cancelled by President Reagan) because it is fairly easy to explain and to prove the tax you would pay— legally— in two examples:

There once was a tax allowance that if you came into an unexpected financial windfall you could average your income out using your last five years income as a base. It worked like this:

Let's assume Rod hit the lotto for $100,000.00.. His income had been $20,000.00 a year for the last four years and also this current taxable year, which meant this year, he had $20,000. income plus $100,000 lotto winnings for a combined this year taxable income of $120,000.00.. Looking at the tax table (before deductions) he owed $48,000.00 in gross taxes.

He decided to use the Tax five year averaging method to lower his taxes:

Four years times $20,000.00 equals $80,000.00 plus the $120,000.00 for the fifth year, giving Rod a five year total of $200,000.00.

Now we divide $200.000.00 by five years and we get a new figure for the fifth year, $40,000.00.

Again we go to the tax table and see our gross income tax on $40,000.00 is $15,000.00.

Would you rather pay $48,000.00 gross tax or $15,000.00 gross tax? (Before personal taxes, and equal for each example.)

Remember this was perfectly legal under the U.S. Tax Code. I know because I had a monetary windfall one year and claimed it.

There are many perfectly legal methods of lowering corporate taxes. There are many,many legal methods of reducing a companies tax burden, and they were written by the governments of all of our countries to encourage business, thus employing people.

Even state owned industries are taxed to pay for infrastructure and other—roads, ports, national defense, etc..

I know this example is not part of your countries tax code, as I explained it is no longer part of my countries. This is just an easy example, but once again if it was part of your countries tax code, and you won $100,000.00, would YOU pay the LEGAL $48,000.00 tax table rate or the LEGAL $15,000.00 tax?

Cheers, Rodney

Captain Kong
6th February 2015, 09:58 PM
I pay Taxes to the US on my Shares in US, companies, If I cash them in the Brits would Tax me again.
So I keep them in the States.
Brian

cappy
6th February 2015, 10:12 PM
Jim,
Not the Daily Mail, Telegraph had a full page article on the union activities.
Never heard of a Union paying sickness and accident benefits.
Vic###alas jim like the welsh rugby team i think even you must admit you have been trounced ....isay trounced...and overun tonite time to take an early bath ......love cappy

Jim Brady
6th February 2015, 10:28 PM
Trounced by whom.I'm the only one that made any sense the rest is just blinkered nonsense,you are not well read enough cappy.Then again if you have never heard of something it must be nonsense as you are always right you are what some people might call a know all.If you only knew whats ahead this year I think that you would be considering a change in direction.By the way despite me proving your story on the arctic convoys was nonsense do you still believe it,if so I will never ever enter into a debate with you again.Trounced indeed!!!!!
Regards.
jim.B.

cappy
6th February 2015, 10:59 PM
like the army marching past jim and mrs brady saying ...ooh look our jim is the only one in step .......trounced indeed jim .....lol cappy

Jim Brady
6th February 2015, 11:03 PM
Answer the bleddy question your acting like David Cameron !!!!!

Captain Kong
6th February 2015, 11:05 PM
I enjoy a lively debate, better than watching rubbish on TV.
Cheers
Brian

cappy
6th February 2015, 11:09 PM
Answer the bleddy question your acting like David Cameron !!!!!trounced jim and out of step.....cappy.....of to bed now regards and no hard feelings jim even you cant be right all the time lol cappy......dont take it so serious your vote andmine wont make any difference

happy daze john in oz
7th February 2015, 05:48 AM
Tax avoidance is legal,tax evasion is not. But the non payment of tax in any country is not just a UK thing, it goes on in all countries. But while some may knock those with money it is very often they who provide the job by having the money t start up a business, have your equality if you wish but then you will all be a the bottom. Sadly life is full of winners and loosers and how you end up is very often of your own making.

Captain Kong
7th February 2015, 10:54 AM
I have three friends who are multi Millionaires, ie, over £30,000,000 Plus each.
They had Nowt, and started with leaving school as I did at 15, so no education.

One, Joe, he started work in a cobblers shop, mending clogs and shoes, we all laughed at him, what a boring job.
He was the lad who started REEBOK, International Multi Billion pound organisation employing hundreds of thousands world wide, He has sold out now and retired in comfort.

Howie, left school at 15, became a hairdresser, we all laughed at him in a barbers shop, boring.
He discovered there were no cash and carries for hairdressing products any where, He started one, and now has I50 Cash and Carries Nation wide from Scotland down to London and the south coast, employing over 600 people. Has a huge farmhouse in the country, Gynasiun, Swimming pool with a tide pump in so you can swim against the tide non stop. Four cars ,including Rolls Bentley, Porsche, .
Still works in his 70s.
,
Tony, Thick as two planks, became a joiner. Boring carrying wood for the Joiner. So decided to work for himself.
He rented a shop, two rooms up and two down, with his family living in it. In his first week of trading he sold one bag of nails for One shilling and sixpence. He was sawing planks on the table while his wife was feeing the babies, " Duck yer head Mary, I am coming through with a plank"
His kids were hungry, The wife and I fed them at my house, They had no money , the wife and I took his kids with our two on holiday to Spain and paid for them.
He stuck to it, his business increased. and he had bigger premises, Importing timber direct from Philipines,
Canada and Sweden, Then he came in my house one night when I was home on leave,
Have you got a Docking bottle of whisky?. We sat down and emptied it, This was in 1978,
He said, " That Swedish fella I buy timber off wants to buy me out, he has offered Four Million Quid, I dont know what to do"
I said , `I would snatch his hand off`, he thought a bit and said `Nay, if its worth Four Million to him it must be worth a lot more to me,`
He didnt sell, He has many large Timber outlets and Do it Yourself Stores Around the North West,
worth many many Millions of pounds.
.
So the moral of this story is, If you have Nowt, get off your ass, stop whinging about people who have more than you have , stop feeling sorry for your self and do it, you have nothing to lose and you could end up a `Toff,
Oportunities are there,
Cheers
Brian
.
.

cappy
7th February 2015, 11:01 AM
brian it makes my day to hear stories like that instead of the moaners.....how often if ever do we hear someone say ...i have made a good living working for that man or company .....thanks to himi can use my skills to both our BENEFITS......feed my children and have the good things......its never said......but the others are heard loud and clear....but such is life...regards cappy

gray_marian
7th February 2015, 11:32 AM
#66, I agree completely with your post Brian. Think the problem arises with some who don't have an entrepreneurial mind and the business acumen to follow through. Nerves of steel are a must and the full support of wife, husband, family or business partner can be a great incentive..... Sure there will be problems to overcome, there always is and that can separate the men from the boys. As we all know some don't make it but you have to admire them at least for trying. For those who think about it but don't fair enough. They accept their limitations in a business field and there's no shame in that. Only small minds decry. We can't all be "Ragged Trousered Philanthropists"

Braid Anderson
7th February 2015, 12:41 PM
From my book 'Tropical Trial', this is NOT fiction!

Now the fun begins, just to make sure everyone knows the whole thing is a farce. The judges are now in a hurry to go home, never mind that they have been the biggest time wasters. Everybody (except Yours Truly) thinks three cheers it's all over tonight. Timo says oh hell, if it finishes tonight my wife isn't here and she has my passport. I said that was the least of my worries, and I'd stay an extra day to keep him company if we got out, no sweat, but don't bet on it.

Next thing the five of us are hurried in to sit on the bench facing the judges. When I come in the judges jabber at me as I sit down, and point to my left. I get up, move to the left and start to sit down again; but they keep jabbering and pointing to my left. I move left, sit down, stand up again, move left again, and there's no bench left. I'm about to say will somebody please tell me what the hell is going on, when old Harsubeno tells me they want me to get rid of my plastic bag, which I'm holding in my left hand. Inside the bag is my hand towel for wiping the sweat, my notebook and pencil, spare cigarettes, the medicated powder Parker gave me this morning, my photos of Liz and the kids, a spare shirt......but no kitchen sink!

I must admit it looks as if I just did the grocery shopping - or managed to make a few bombs in the jail. So I give the bag to Harsubeno and sit down. Then the musical chairs begin. They start shifting us around so we are sitting in the order they have us on their list; but they still get it wrong and call Carlson Anderson and so on; but that doesn't matter any more, we must get on with it.
Then we are instructed to answer the questions by numbers from the left - God's truth! We are told 'answer yes or no.' They start shooting the questions, the interpreter stumbles over his English and says what's easiest in Indonesian. So when it's my turn, the first time I answer clearly "Yes or no", the second time "Farce", and nobody even takes notice! The judges keep up the pressure and the whole thing degenerates to the level of a Max Sennet comedy movie.

Half an hour it took them, with half of that spent translating. I could not have picked a more perfect example of Indonesian 'Justice' in operation. What a shame it couldn't have been captured on video, it would be a world smash hit. Six prosecution witnesses take up three and a half days, and five of us get to star in this week's Farcical Half Hour. And the consuls sat there like the Wise Monkeys (why insult the monkeys, Braid?), saying not a damned word. I would be hard pressed now to piss on them if they were on fire. What the hell are they here for? Quote from the front page of my passport:-

HER BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S PRINCIPAL SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS REQUESTS AND REQUIRES IN THE NAME OF HER MAJESTY ALL THOSE WHOM IT MAY CONCERN TO ALLOW THE BEARER TO PASS
FREELY WITHOUT LET OR HINDRANCE, AND TO AFFORD THE BEARER SUCH ASSISTANCE AND PROTECTION AS MAY BE NECESSARY.

Sue the bastards? Hardly, the whole thing doesn't 'CONCERN' them in the least.


Tropical Trial by Braid Anderson | 9781785101137 (http://feedaread.com/books/Tropical-Trial-9781785101137.aspx)

cappy
7th February 2015, 06:13 PM
Answer the bleddy question your acting like David Cameron !!!!!###hello jim .....in ref to the ss novers hill i could not bear the thought of you not debating with myself in the future ....so have spent some time today seeking in old newspapers and have eventually found the same.....the article is on page63 of the daily mail wed jan 28 by a maurice cross from bristol.....there is a novers hill area in bristol also .......bearing in mind it is also in churchills memoirs .....i humbly feel that your doubting thomas attitude is not correct ......i suppose your next sally forth will be you dont believe any thing in the newspapers .......often niether do i....but i only quote what iread that day ...i hope this will give you some further idea of what a great man our leader winston churchill was and the great respect he had for the merchant navy........regards cappy

Jim Brady
7th February 2015, 06:46 PM
There's another story on here today cappy that has realy tickled your fancy,you have nothing but praise for it but I'm afraid it is not true.I still don't believe the Novers Hill story and now that you say you read it in the Daily Mail that makes it more dodgy.cappy check out the internet for all ships that sailed in the Arctic Convoys and see if you come up with that ships name.
Regards.
Jim.B.

cappy
7th February 2015, 06:55 PM
There's another story on here today cappy that has realy tickled your fancy,you have nothing but praise for it but I'm afraid it is not true.I still don't believe the Novers Hill story and now that you say you read it in the Daily Mail that makes it more dodgy.cappy check out the internet for all ships that sailed in the Arctic Convoys and see if you come up with that ships name.
Regards.
Jim.B.jim i am only quoting what i read ......i am sure you have already checked on the convoys list for 1943 .......perhaps someone may have churchills memiors and check it but i am ata loss as to why someone would invent a story when the great man had so many great happenings in his life regards cappy

vic mcclymont
7th February 2015, 07:29 PM
Cappy, socialist only believe whats printed in the Guardian, or the Mirror, or the Independent.

Jim Brady
7th February 2015, 07:37 PM
Vic I've no idea who you are calling a socialist but please be a bit more productive and put a bit more meat on the bone to the topic in question.You can't I hear you say so please don't throw in the odd one liner.
Regards.
Jim.B.

vic mcclymont
7th February 2015, 07:49 PM
Jim, if I have branded you a socialist I apologise.
The point I was trying to make albeit light heartedly was that if a story is printed in the Daily Mail it is always wrong, no matter if the story was /is correct.
Regards
Vic

Rodney Mills
7th February 2015, 09:02 PM
Captain, I'm not a tax lawyer or tax accountant. but I seriously believe you would not be liable for U.S. capital gains tax if you sold your U.S. shares. If you have to pay U.K. tax on your U.S. capital gains, your U.K. tax would be considered a legitimate business expense and would deducted or cancel out any profit on your U.S. investment. Under U.S. tax law you could not be taxed twice for an investment profit.

The only way you are twice taxed (screwed) is inheritance tax, (1) it's taxed in the year you earned it. All interest income is paid annually, so it's fully taxed. (2) You croak, and it's taxed again as inheritance tax.

Cheers, Rodney

Captain Kong
7th February 2015, 09:23 PM
- - - Updated - - -

Hi Rodney
I pay 15% Tax on my EXXON/MOBIL Dividends every year, it is deducted and the net is then reinvested into more shares, .
If I cashed them in, they are on the NY Stock Exchange, then the Brits would Tax me again as Income if I bring the money into England. So I would be then taxed twice on the same dividends.
That is the way that I see it.
I could just cash the Shares and put the money in a US Bank and then go over there and spend it there.

As they say only two things are Certain in life, Taxes and Death.
You just cant win.
Cheers
Brian.

Rodney Mills
8th February 2015, 12:34 AM
Seems there is no discussion re. my post #35 on using or not using legitimate tax methods or laws to lower one's taxes, so here's another one:

We retired in 1985 and went gallivanting around the world until 1997. Neither my wife or myself were employed. We owned a house in Connecticut, an hour away from Manhattan. It came with two and a half acres of wooded land. The house had a lot of "bells and whistles," billiard room, gym, Jacuzzi room, four bedrooms etc. etc.. We rented it furnished for a one year lease, just to see how it went. We rented it to the former second unit director (responsible for action shots) of the movie "Apocalypse Now." It was a very good deal for us, so we continued to rent it out for longer periods. The manager of the New York "Westpac Bank," (an Ozzie family) for five years, and a Brit. family for the balance, he was the U.S. manager of a tanker company, rents and repairs and maintenance were paid by their respective employers, so we had no worries about upkeep and monies due. I tell you this purely to let you see that this rental produced good income for us...and it was tax free!

The house became a business for us and as such I could depreciate the building, and I could legally use the fair market value of the house at the time of rental as the basis of the depreciation. Further, there was no difference between our furnishings of the house or furnishings of a factory or office...so I could legally depreciate them. Plus deduct any expenses even fares and mileage to inspect our investment. Consequently, we paid not a penny income tax during this period.

Prior to that. In order to encourage people to save money, President Ronald Reagan and Congress passed a law. Open a special savings account and it would be tax free up to $25,000.00. I immediately transferred the max from one account to a new account and had tax free interest income—it was ten or twelve percent a year at that time.

In 1997 I sold my house. The difference between the original fair market value and the sale price was taxed as capital gains and the depreciation was added to our profit, so some of the tax I avoided was "recaptured." however I was able to drastically reduce our taxes by other legal methods.

In any case, We received thirteen years tax free rent, plus gained appreciation in the value of our house over the thirteen years, and we paid minimal tax on that.

Now I ask you again. If you were in my shoes would you have used these legitimate methods of avoiding taxes or would you have made a donation to the government?

Cheers, Rodney

gray_marian
8th February 2015, 12:40 AM
#78, I'm with you Rodney;)

j.sabourn
8th February 2015, 01:42 AM
Capital Gains, the only thing I know about it is that I have X thousands of dollars I can claim against the tax on such. I still do not understand the Australian Income Tax system and like most in Australia employ an accountant to complete the form every year. I have never during working out here paid less than 30,000 dollars tax and that was in the first tax year out here which was only 7 months. Most out here at the time invested in property or forests or anything going where they could claim a reduction on tax. I bought two rental properties, and know some had in excess of 12. You could if I remember correctly claim on your interest on mortgage repayments and any associated repairs to the properties. Unlike the UK you could not claim on interest repayments on your own home, only on rental houses. Come retiring age saw that the rents I received for these properties would exclude me from receiving any government pension, so I sold more or less for what I bought them for so was very little if any capital gains. Am still left with this offset against any future tax on capital gains, which is never going to happen. The ordinary man in the street tries to cut back on the tax he pays as best he can, some of the big companies pay very little or no tax at all, which may seem unfair to most, but that is business the rest is bulls...t. Anyone who can circumvent paying exorbidant amounts of tax, the best of luck to them. Should also point out that if you did not at the time receive a pension from the government were classed as a self funded independent retiree and did not receive the benefits of the pension card, which includes to us getting on in years free medical and much cheaper prescriptions, free travel on buses etc. the old age pension card probably varies from state to state but is certainly worth having in WA. As an aside to this I can never remember filling in a tax form in the uk as was PAYE. The only time was on coming back into British shipping the first year received a form which the 2nd Mate an ex Accountant filled in for me, and I got a payment made to me, although I hadn't paid tax for well over 4 years. Did not even question it, apart from buying the 2nd ,mate a beer or two or three. JS

Des Taff Jenkins
8th February 2015, 03:45 AM
Hi All.
Two observations on this thread, one it started out as a debate on prisons and how they should treat criminals, be it little old women who can't pay their TV licence or villains who should be inside, like politicians who no longer have the respect of anyone, then it went into the pros and cons of rich people paying tax.
For mine what is happening in Indonesia is typical. Two Australians?? one Chines one Indian are about to be executed and in my eyes rightly so, they were caught with 8 kilos of the drug ice, a capital offence there, but which would have got them about six months in jail here if they had managed not to get caught
in Indonesia, but if they had got away with it would possibly have killed a few young people, and I doubt they would have payed any tax on the profits so it's all relevant really it's a world now where if you can get away with it do it.
Cheers Des :(

Rodney Mills
8th February 2015, 09:49 PM
Good post John in W.A..

I have done my own taxes since my second year in the U.S.. I too used a tax accountant. He handed back my completed tax return and I found out I owed $1,800.00 additional tax, with a note, "Please enclose a check for the amount owed along with your tax return."...there was a big problem, I didn't have $1,800.00.

I happened to go into a convenience store to by a beer to drown my sorrows and there was a book "How to Lower Your Taxes". I bought it, I studied it word for word. Bottom line, I recalculated and rewrote my tax return, using the one made out by the accountant as a guide to what goes where, and had $250.00 coming back. From then on in I did my own.

I bought more comprehensive books and finally took two college courses Taxation 101 and 102.

Cheers, Rodney

j.sabourn
8th February 2015, 11:54 PM
Rodney, thinking back the only way I could of received a tax back return was that the bloke doing it for me must have gone back to when I had been paying taxes. I believe one could in those days go back at least 5 years, may of even been longer. I always kept within the law at the time, whatever it was, think you were allowed so many days in the country during the financial year. When Harold Wilson put a fixed amount which was very low of pounds sterling being taken out of the UK, I always wondered about that, as was the year of the Expo in Montreal, and as I was working for a Montreal company was quite often there. The amount of British people there was in the thousands so they must have had some way of taken money out. It was a ridiculous low figure one was allowed it was impossible for that law to have been maintained. This was in 1967. How they did it when the likes of myself or anyone else was apparently taboo, failed to see. JS

happy daze john in oz
9th February 2015, 05:52 AM
Many here in Oz use a tax accountant each year to do the tax return for them, the cost is tax deductible. I never used one and each year got a tax refund, there are so many things you can claim for that a tax accountant will say no to.
Example, my staff got a laundry allowance via the union agreement they were on. But it was only enough for three washes per week. They had to, under the health ac, put a clean uniform on at the start of each shift. When one of the staff tried to get a deduction for the extra she was old no by her accountant. Uniform must have a logo before you can claim he told her. I sent him a copy oft he health act which he said he knew nothing of. No staff member had ay trouble after that.