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Keith at Tregenna
12th February 2014, 01:36 AM
Posting here as I research similar re: MN, certain many phrases etc are shared in all armed forces and will have a lot in common with MN, though I will not know fully until I find out.

Know a fair few from my naval and RAF connection, but would appreciate all help re: similar to do with MN.

Starting with: Jack Speak - Naval Language and Slang of the Royal Navy

The Royal Navy has a curious habit of pretending its shore establishments or 'stone frigates' are ships. With training establishments this apparently odd behaviour helps the trainees to feel at home or rather 'at sea'. On 'concrete ships', the RN talk about raising the gangplank (closing the gates) and allowing sailors to 'go ashore'.

Will add more, just started off with a request regarding my usage of terms like: Lumpy jumpers etc,

Navy speak or 'Jack' speak, as it is sometimes affectionately called, is complex and consists of a broad spectrum of language from military jargon, through historical derivations to slang and downright vulgarity. Much of the vocabulary relates to life on board ship and also to Jack's arduous leisure pursuits while ashore.

It will be facinating to see how JackSpeak and navy slang evolves as the number of women going to sea steadily increases. Will political correctness in the Royal Navy triumph? Will women feminise the language and culture? Only time will tell.

K.

Keith at Tregenna
12th February 2014, 01:46 AM
NAUTICAL LANGUAGE:

Some familiar words and phrases come unexpectedly from their use on the sea; from commonly used words like overwhelm (from the Middle English word meaning "to capsize") and casual (from the term "a casual" used to describe the wages paid to seamen between regular payments) to expressions like a "square meal" (from the square tray upon which the main meal of the day was served on early British warships) and "Please stand by" (an expression derived from the command for sailors to be ready). A good start at: http://see-the-sea.org/nautical/naut-body.htm

K.

gray_marian
12th February 2014, 02:29 AM
Re link.........Yet no lumpy jumper:)

Keith at Tregenna
12th February 2014, 02:35 AM
Shoot sorry: Lumpy jumper = Wren

Not certain anymore to elaborate: !

K.

happy daze john in oz
12th February 2014, 05:38 AM
Re link.........Yet no lumpy jumper:)

That is waht you get if you do not take precautions Marian.

Keith at Tregenna
15th February 2014, 12:14 AM
Found during a search for the farmers watch thread:

An index of maritime terminology:

Glossary

http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/GenBosunGlossary.html

j.sabourn
15th February 2014, 01:20 AM
Keith had a quick look. Cant see stays or a ship being in Stays. Two different terminologys for two different things. Must have been compiled by one of these farmers. I would have thought that the Farmer title arose, was that he had no seamanlike duties to do as such and was considered a country yokel. Also did not have to be a night watch. There was the forenoon watch. The afternoon watch, The Dog watches. The Evening watch and the morning watch. 8/12 12/4 4/8 8/12 12/4 4/8 in same order. The farmer was in every watch. Cheers John S

Bill Cameron
15th February 2014, 09:22 AM
according to my copy of Jackspeak autographed by the author Cmd Rick Jolly a "Lumpy Jumper" is a Civilian female, in contrast to a Jenny Wren ( now not politically correct ) , also used to describe a WRNS wooly pully.

Keith at Tregenna
15th February 2014, 04:24 PM
according to my copy of Jackspeak autographed by the author Cmd Rick Jolly a "Lumpy Jumper" is a Civilian female, in contrast to a Jenny Wren ( now not politically correct ) , also used to describe a WRNS wooly pully.

I answered with Shoot sorry: Lumpy jumper = Wren and Not certain anymore to elaborate: !

As many in the armed forces use the term in a derogatory way and I was answering Marian, hopefully in a nice way.

Thanks K.

john sutton
15th February 2014, 04:55 PM
I was always under the impression that square meal derived from the shape of "hard tack" which was the main food available when the salt beef ran out

Keith at Tregenna
15th February 2014, 05:01 PM
I was always led to believe that the expression 'a square meal' originated from the Royal Navy practice of serving meals on square wooden plates. Such plates did exist so that is a plausible story, but there's no other evidence to support it.

You may be perfectly correct John, certain others will have some ideas ?

K.

Roger French
15th February 2014, 06:01 PM
Casual has nothing to do with anything nautical, it stems from Latin, the same root that gives us "case", as used in "in case of emergency".

Keith at Tregenna
15th February 2014, 06:09 PM
Told her indoors if I have casual s*x it will been in case of emergency: That's when the fight started: In the dog house K.

Keith at Tregenna
15th February 2014, 10:31 PM
Lumpy @ http://www.merchant-navy.net/forum/trivia-interesting-stuff/21328-do-they-still-make-bras-like.html#post157330 ?

Bill Cameron
16th February 2014, 09:29 AM
I am with Keith on this one, Square meals were served on bits of wooden planks. I served as a guide on the replica Barque Hms Eneavour a few years ago when she was in Leith on her first round the world trip, a great experience, bit I digress, on the main mess deck, the tables were set out with square plates . sic the square meals.

robpage
16th February 2014, 10:36 AM
HMS Invincible, a 74 gun ship, was wrecked in the Solent in 1758. In the late 1970’s the ship was excavated by archaeologists. This collection numbers over six hundred artefacts from the ship providing a unique picture of life onboard an eighteenth-century warship. This square plate was issued to a sailor for eating his food off. It is the origin of the expression ‘three square meals a day'. Here is one of her Square Plates

14836

Keith at Tregenna
17th February 2014, 02:31 AM
Though I have read many theories, still seek absolute proof. Square meal dates to 1868, although it did not become common until around 1880. It is an Americanism. It comes from the adjectival use of square to mean sturdy or substantial. There are older, related senses of the adjective square. In the 17th century, square was used to describe someone who could eat and drink copious amounts.

There are various stories relating this phrase to the types of food (usually four in number) consumed. These stories are not true.

The style of eating, dubbed square meal and once required of plebes at West Point, where eating utensils must be moved at right angles is derivative of the common usage, not the origin.

(Source: Oxford English Dictionary Online)

K.

Ivan Cloherty
17th February 2014, 07:37 AM
Keith perhaps you should have tried 'Confused.com' instead !

Keith at Tregenna
17th February 2014, 05:19 PM
I was always led to believe that the expression 'a square meal' originated from the Royal Navy practice of serving meals on square wooden plates. Such plates did exist so that is a plausible story, but there's no other evidence to support it.

You may be perfectly correct John, certain others will have some ideas ? K.

Must have been Go Compare: But can find little that say's definite: most are probably, may have been etc. Took it for years the definition was purely naval. But now have doubts.

K

j.sabourn
19th February 2014, 01:35 AM
Ship in stays, believe was mentioned and cant see it has been answered if it has sorry. A ship in stays is when it loses steerage way and comes with the wind right ahead and loses its sailing capabilities. Sailing ships of different types have different capabilities some can sail closer to the wind than others. What about for your glossary of terms a Shore Bosun believe this is a MN term. The likes of Jaunty for Naval police is RN. Whereas Master at Arms is I believe is used by both services... Cheers JS

j.sabourn
19th February 2014, 02:02 AM
Glossary.... MN.. Quartermaster RN.. Coxswain. Quartermaster in the RN believe is tied up with stores. Also in the RN ..The Coxn has a rank equivilant of a Bosun in the MN. This is only my beliefs, if wrong someone please say so and can readjust memory banks. Anyone wanting any messages excluding the Rude ones to pass onto B. Kong will be seeing him maybe at 1230 today about 0430 UK time, and tomorrow night from 1800 (1000 UK time) until probably someone falls over or gets threatened with a divorce. Will pass on Cappys message re. Vicar and Nuns and how he was missed. We don't have the luxury of clergy here as are all sinners and past redemption.. Will have to go and get some petrol now as is about 40 minutes drive into Fremantle. Cheers John S

Ivan Cloherty
19th February 2014, 07:38 AM
Glossary..... Will have to go and get some petrol now as is about 40 minutes drive into Fremantle. Cheers John S

Doesn't the car use petrol where you live John! Give Kong our regards, he must be really bored by now, being away from the UK all this time and missing all the fun weather we're having.

Fremantle ! was there last in the early 70's changing the flag of a ship from Greek to Panamanian, now those were fun days! with the Aussie unions

j.sabourn
19th February 2014, 07:46 AM
Back again Kong ok looks quite fit for a 46 year old. Have 2 holes in floor of car Ivan, put feet through and run the same as the one Barney has in the Flintstones. However gets tiring on anything over 20 miles. BBQ tomorrow, just fish and chips today. Cheers JS

gray_marian
19th February 2014, 12:20 PM
#21 & 23, John, Hope you all have 'A Gay Old Time':D