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paul barton
9th September 2013, 12:59 PM
hello,

i'm here hoping to research a relative who ended up as a merchant navy captain in 1927 at the age of 28 and served at the tail end of ww1, through ww2 and up until 1964.

paul

paul barton
9th September 2013, 01:03 PM
hi all,

does anyone know what the phrase R.N.R 443 TX means please, it was on a re-issued masters certificate dated 3/5/1939

would it be a merchant navy captain working under royal navy rules ?


cheers paul

DeepSea
9th September 2013, 01:15 PM
As far as I am aware the T124 Agreements did not start up again until September 1939 after being disbanded in 1919.

DeepSea
9th September 2013, 01:18 PM
Need at least his full name, date and place of birth please to get us started.

paul barton
9th September 2013, 01:46 PM
hi, i didn't know if this was the right place to post the info, but here goes....

william fyfe,
born 22nd sept 1899, greenock, scotland.

so far we've been through the national archives and the guildhall, but have only found limited references, no sign of his pouch.
the 3 ships we have found are:-
135324 "ardgair(and other names)" 1918/1919
and an american ship 214282 "kill van kull" no date
plus a reference to the mv sapphire that sunk in 1939

13609
13610
13611

any help would be much appreciated especially with the ww2 years.

paul

Hugh
9th September 2013, 03:58 PM
I don't think it has anything at all to do with T124 Agreements. If he was already a captain in the R.N.R. he would have no need to sign a T124 Agreement as he would already be subject to naval regulations and discipline. It is always difficult to be sure though without seeing the document in question or knowing who the subject of the enquiry is about.
Regards
Hugh

DeepSea
9th September 2013, 06:30 PM
There are no actual surviving MN records from WWI. The Ardair you mention was sailing as the Manchurian Prince in 1919 the time he was onboard, so by getting hold of the Crew Agreements for this ship held under her official number, should enable you trace his previous ship as this was usually recorded in the agreements. You can then work back over, though this would take some doing to trace all . These records are actually held in Canada at the hyperlink here. (http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=135324)

As his service continued after 1941, his service file should have been moved into the Fifth Register and these records are held at Kew in block by surname. The file you would need to check should be held in file BT 382/2367 covering the surnames "Fullforth A T H to Fyvie M A" (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C10990591)

These files are best viewed by visiting Kew due to them being held in block, which would involve heavy costs if using the archive research facilities.

I see he is wearing medal ribbons on his uniform, but his actual medal file no longer exists at Kew.

paul barton
9th September 2013, 08:36 PM
hello hugh,

here is the document, its a reissue after the last one was lost when the mv sapphire sunk on 12/04/1939
13615

cheers paul

paul barton
9th September 2013, 08:42 PM
thanks for the info deepsea, i'll have to go back and check that BT 382/2367 file, i may have missed it before.

do you know if any records are held in scottish archives ?

heres another document, from 3/05/1939
13616

many thanks paul

Hugh
9th September 2013, 10:07 PM
Hello Paul,
Thanks for putting up the document. 443TX is simply his Royal Naval Reserve (R.N.R.) service number. I don't think T124 is relevant here.
Regards
Hugh

Hugh
9th September 2013, 10:31 PM
Hello Paul,
You will recall I gave you the information about 'KILL VAN KULL' on another site and I said that I was unconvinced at the time. That information is now incorrect as I suspected.
'214282' is marked on his ID card photo and is simply that: his identity number or otherwise known as his RS2 number. This is why I asked earlier on the R.N.R. 443 TX thread for a copy of the document(s) - so important when doing research. Had I seen this on the other site it would have been very clear.
Regards
Hugh

paul barton
10th September 2013, 06:23 AM
many thanks hugh, i was a go between before but i now have copies of all the info ! thanks for your help.

paul

paul barton
10th September 2013, 06:30 AM
many thanks again hugh

paul